Earning a living in the Philippines,,, how hard can that be???

[Mike001]

Hi Everyone,
I've been posting on the Thread started by Seram "My Asawa's Business that works" and "A bunch of questions in one thread" started by Darwinder...

Here in this thread I'm going to tell my full story, but PLEASE bear in mind these are my opinions and experiences,,,

I actually live in France but visit the Phil's every other month to see my future wife,,,
My future wife and in laws live in a small village reliant on Fishing,,, up to last Jan/Feb they were scratching a living but a very meager one,,,
Anyway over the last year the large fishing boats have come into the area and wiped out all the fish, now my future father in law is not even catching enough for the table,,, any one married to or going to marry a Philippina knows when you marry you don't just get a great wife you get a great family as well...usually...

My story really starts here,,, when married my wife and I plan to come back to France, this leaves My wife's Mom and Dad along with other dependents,,, ( I wont go into that one) fending for them themselves,,, I suppose to most Europeans that's not a big deal but to very family oriented Philippina's it is a biggy and because they have treated me so well its a biggy to me also... that's why I've been trying to get a business up and running,,, not for me,, for my in laws,,, they don't have the money to invest so obviously this falls at my door which really I don't mind,,, anyway if you have been following Serams thread you will have read the problems we have finally come up with....

For the size of family to live a sensible life (no luxuries) just keep the wolf from the door and the rice bin full they need to earn 500pesos a day,,, I hear you say,,, how hard can that be,, that's not even 9 euros a day or less than 2 pints to a drinking man here in France...
The in laws are 60 and 62 respectively, He has been a Fisherman all his life and knows nothing else,,, Her a house wife, but helped with the income selling Ice Coke and a few bits and pieces making 50 to 75pesos a day...

I've been in business most of my life but I don't think I have EVER come across a place with so much competition,,,little shops selling every day supplies, people coming to the door with veggis, street sellers in the local towns, load n dita, Philippino restaurants, American style restaurants, phone shops, you name it its there there is nothing that isn't covered but not just one or two like the towns here but 1000's of them,,, its like there is very little work so just about everyone try's their hand at selling something...
The fact is the Southern Leyte region is the same where ever you go...

For example on route to Maasin from Cebu after the ferry trip I have to take a van from Ormoc,,, while waiting for the van to leave I'm hit by at least 25 different sellers at the terminal selling the same things,,, same at the stops on route,,,when i get into Maasin same again but also 25 motorbike taxi's are there touting to take me the rest of the way....

This threat is aimed at answering future questions to those who may ask,,,, I'm not retiring age so don't have a pension and I'm thinking of moving to the Philippines, what kind of work can I do to make a living ???

My answer is,,, If the locals struggle so much and a reasonably large investment wont do the trick what chance do we have when we've had it so easy in Europe all our live's,,, we've had the luxury of health benefits, social welfare systems and the like to fall back on,,, there in the Phil's unless you have a good job and PhilHealth cover you have no chance,,, for every one with the good job and health cover there are 1000's really struggling...

Ok I've had a good life, made a few bucks,,, good fortune in business has come my way on occasions, is been good its been hard,,, so why not support the in laws,,,that's what I am doing at the moment or they would have an empty rice bin,,,
I honestly believe it would be cheaper to bring them to France if visa's would allow...don't be under the illusion that its that cheep to live in the Philippines,,,for example fruit there is more expensive than in Europe and many more things that come under the category of daily needs,,, OK to a tourist of course things look and often are cheaper but wait till you actually live there... Chicken 120pesos a kilo or 2.15 Euros, I pay 30Euros for a 15kilo box of chicken here in France, 2 Euros a kilo, same with pork,, potatoes there are 100pesos a kilo, 1.78Euro,, here in France I pay 4.50Euros for a 5 kilo sack 0.90cents a kilo and I can go on and on,,, Fuel prices are not that much different than France either...

For those getting a 1000 US dollars a month pension you can really have a great life,,, travel the Islands and live it up but for those Philippino's scratching to make even 200 to 300pesos a day its not so easy.

Earning there is virtually impossible unless you are a specialist in a required field or a gynecologist or pediatrician,,, I see 100's of young pregnant woman everywhere i go...

Don't get me wrong I'm not complaining I love the place,,,I'm just trying to alert those reading this not to be under the illusion that if you have no income from your own country you can come to the Phil's and live off savings,, unless you have a lot of them,,, the Phil's will eat your money just as quick as anywhere else...

So finally if there is anyone out there that has Philippine experience and can give advice on how I can set up my in laws to fend for themselves with as little as 500pesos a day earnings I would love to hear from you...

Thanks to all
Mike001

[Taswegian]

Hi Mike,

Sounds like food is pretty cheap where you live however thats not the case everywhere. In Australia chicken is like $12 a kilo (around 450peso), spuds $5 a kilo (around 250peso) but the main killer in other countries is housing, rent Australia 3bed home around $400 a WEEK (18,000 peso), my house in Phils 9,000 peso a month ( $200 Aussie), this is what makes the huge difference to expats.

Yes there is a huge amount of competition, however you can still make a buck from a sari sari if you put it in the right spot. I set one up for my wife for 150k peso (land, building and stock) she ran it for 6 months making around 800 to 1000 peso a day, then sold it to another person for 200k peso. Also i brought her brother a trike and he makes around 300 - 500 peso a day just running errands for the local shops in my province. My wife now is planning to open a little food shop selling hotdogs and hamburgers, her uncle has one and says he make around 1,500peso a day.

cheers

[Mike001]

Hi Taswegian,
Thanks for your reply,,
Just my opinion again,,, regarding a sari sari, yes the right spot,, hmm,, not easy,, we live in a small fishing village south of Maasin,, and i mean small,,, the street we live on is about 120 yards long just off the main road it has 4 sari sari's 1 has a small back room with computer games for kids, 2 vulcanizing shops, a guy that repairs boat engines and 2 BBQ chicken and hot dog stands at night,,,some days when the kids are off school they sell the fried 1peso fish balls,,,, all of the people running these stores are relatives of my future wife,, EVERY other street even the gravel roads down to the shore have similar,,, everyone is selling because there is just no work,,, in addition there are people coming around almost every hour selling something, from veggis to ice candy to bulot, you name it someones selling it...but mostly they come from other surrounding villages...

Please be my guest, come here travel from Maasin to Padre Burgos, you wont find one village different on the way...

As for deliveries,,,if what you need isn't sold at your door then the local shop will deliver it,,, for example if we want drinking (spring) water the supplier has to come all of 20 yards to install it in our kitchen, a sack of rice,,, same 20 yards,,, to go into Maasin to buy a sack of rice isn't economical,,, we can buy the good rice for 1650 a sack,, 50kg,,,in Maasin its 1600,,, the motor taxi cost 15 each way plus the driver charges 15 for the rice so a total of 45pesos to go 20 minutes each way for a saving of 5 pesos...

Rent doesn't come into the equation in our case the house was an inheritance from long ago...
The the shop owners barely scrape a living but most have grown children who have gone to work in Manila or Cebu,,, they send back whatever they can afford to help there parents...

The only place where I think there might be a place for a Hot dog stand is in Massin but I already see so many with the sign buy one,take one, in fact when I was there last month I think 1 or 2 has closed down..the town is full to bursting with eatery's as they call them...

Wow, chicken and spuds are expensive in Australia,,, regarding rent in France it can be expensive enough depending on the area but where I live around 450 Euros a month for a modest 3 bed however its not a problem for me,,, I own my own home,,,,
However for a phily to pay 9000 a month rent in these parts in Southern Leyte they would need a fairly good job,, break the month down into 30 days and you are paying 300pesos a day,,, I cant honestly see very many in our village being able to afford that...most live in what I think are called Nipa huts...wood, bamboo with Anahaw leaf roof's.

Running errands for the local stores in our area isn't an option,,, my wife's Mom sells coke and other bits an pieces a small sari sari, she gets all she wants delivered the same as all the other stores once or twice a week,,, basically the wholesalers in Maasin send there lorry around a couple of times a week trying to get sales on the drop to increase there sales in an otherwise competitive business in Maasin...

Trust me this area was poor before the Fishing got wiped out but now its pure poverty,,,

Just as a side point my wife tells me stories from her child hood, regaling the times when there house was destroyed almost yearly from hurricanes along with the other half the village,,, times when the monsoon rains came down from the mountain and flooded the fresh water lake 100 yards from there house and washed it away while they headed up to higher ground in the middle of the night in the monsoon rain...
I cant ever recall anything like that happening to me,, I think I would have remembered if it had....

These people have it hard but now the Fishing has gone hard has become almost impossible...

Finally, I remember thinking 20 years ago as a European in Europe with all the automation of factories and industry,,, modern technology,,, lose of jobs,,, that the day would finally come when the only thing left that would pay was crime,,, I think the people in the Philippines got to that stage long ago through poverty but in my village managed to resist that lifestyle,,, however only God knows how... Poor or not,,, they are the nicest most humble kindest people I ever met...

Thanks to all

Mike001

[seram]

Hi Mike.

500 peso a day is not that easy to get in the province. I been through that area and know just how poor it is.

Do they have Pedicabs in your Barangay.

Mate, I bought a pedicab for a family that was battling in Abuyog Leyte. It also is a fishing village.

The pedicab cost me 7,000 peso to buy from a local and 1200 peso a year to register at the Barangay. The Pedicab was driven by the son so there was no wages to pay out. The Pedicab was bringing an average of 140 peso a day. Up keep was low or next to nothing.

I am not sure if a couple of these could be an option. Is your asawa's Mom and Dad helping to feed and keep other relatives. If so, are any of them at the age they can pedal one of these.

You can set them up in a business but your wife must control the peso because it will just be spent and you will continue to support them.

I admire you for trying to help. Many foreigners will just push the Family away because they dont want to be involved in supporting them.

Mate, opening a sari sari store can be a no win situation. I have seen it where the foreigner is digging deeper into his pockets to restock it every week because the family and friends have eaten the goods and also they dont know how to budget so all income is spent on anything but restocking. Also with the poverty, most people are asking for credit.

Mate, I hope you can find something simple and cheap so they can provide for themselves. cheers.

[Mike001]

Hi Seram, and all reading this,,,
Thanks for your reply,,, this is kinda getting a regular thing between us now my friend,, we should chat on Yahoo sometime, but for now I will make my reply,,,

I'm glad you have knowledge of this area, at least you can relate to the situation,,, I imagine your visit was more than a year ago before the Fishing was wiped out,,, things were bad even though the Fishing was providing a living for most but now there only means of support has gone you can imagine how its become even worse...

There used to be pedicabs in our village and neighboring villages, mostly used to take the kids to school,, but they are fast disappearing, I suppose sitting in the sun all day with no custom has something to do with it, the only business they really had before was taking the local children to school...

While on the subject of the schools the one private one that is left is now down to just one class of about 15 children, the summer holidays are as you know at the end of this month,,, I really cant see it reopening for the new school year !!!
The kids have dropped out over the last year one by one to go to the public schools due to the parents financial situation...

There is just one motor bike taxi in the village,,, Dan Dan, a friend of mine, he stands in Maasin with the other 100's of them,,, even he says now it just a waste of petrol,,, he's getting to the point where he spends the same in gasoline as he makes...
In the morning before he leaves to make the 20 minute journey he tries to fill the cab but now days he's seems to be waiting for ever,, its the same at night when he comes home,, in fact I've often seen him come home empty...

My wife's Mom HAS a small sari sari,,, I wont let her expand it, it's pointless,, there are so many in the village,,, if she did expand like you say we would end up eating the goods or throwing them away because they have perished....

The situation regarding dependent's is also a touchy one,,, they have a daughter (unmarried mom,, like so many in these parts) and a two sons,,, one son is completely deaf from an accident working in a piggery in Cebu,,, he does his absolute real best to help but with no work in the area its hard,,, the other son is still in school but he is messing that up with his attendance record due to having a girlfriend influencing his life,,,he only comes home to eat and sleep...

I made the suggestion that the daughter leaves her child with my wife or her Mom and gets a job but having never finished high school can't she cant seem to get anything even menial,,,the shops in Maasin can afford to be picky due to the amount of people looking for work... she has tried taking in washing but even that is not affordable in the area now days...

Other suggestions I made was her going to Cebu or Manila like my wife did at the age of 14 and work as a maid but she is just to frightened to take the step into the big wide world,,, she has never left the village in her life and the idea almost gave her a nervous breakdown,,,
the father of her child has never seen the child and probably doesn't even know he exists,,, but even if he did I very much doubt he would help financially...

My wife despite being supported by me also try's to help,,, she makes ice candy and sells it on the streets but the 30pesos a day profit doesn't go very far...

The Mom looks after the store while making the sweet sticky rice,,, you know the ones,, they wrap them in banana leaves, I forget the name,, but any way she sell those,,, the Father mends nets for others while surveying the sea from the shore on the off chance the sardines might come in,,, but even now the net mending is drying up very fast,,, some even used to come from Limasawa Island to him if they needed nets making but even that's stopped now....
The rest of his time is taken up by collecting wood and cutting sticks to use for cooking and selling the rest...
All the family seem to be continually busy but just not making enough to keep the wolf from the door and the rice bin full....

So it looks like my wife's Mom and Dad are in it for the long haul...

Finally I read a comment on another short forum,,, one guy was thinking of going to the Phill's to look for his bride,, bla bla bla,,,
Some callous guy responded to his post,,, MAKE SURE YOU FIND AN ORPHAN...that way you only marry one not a whole family,,,

Thanks once again my friend,,,
Mike001

[seram]

Mike..

It appears that it is a no win situation for you there.

I once said to a taxi driver taking me from Tacloban to Abuyog that the poverty in Abuyog saddened me and his answer still remains with me. "yet they survive".

The comment about marrying an orphan is true but I get pleasure out of helping out a family that would not have some of the small luxuries I have given them.

Please let us know how it all works out..cheers

[Mike001]

Hi Seram,

I agree these people have had hard lives and it looks set to continue that way,,, and now the Fishing has dried up its very likely going to get harder...

These people are survivors they have no choice,, some of them have gone through things we can't even begin to imagine...

I'm no millionaire but I've done OK, like I said before,,, I've had it good I've had it hard,,, don't get me wrong I have no problem helping my wife's family short or long term,,, they have shown me so much genuine love,,, something that cant be bought.

It's not that they don't want my help and they certainly never asked for it but it would be nice just to give them there pride back and help them fend for themselves...

A very quick but true story, in the early days of meeting my wife and naive to there situation, I remember her Father coming home without a catch and the rice bin empty,,, he had gone out climbed a tree and got coconuts,,,, the wife's Mum had scratched up enough money to buy a tin of condensed milk and a kilo of rice,,, she mixed the coconut milk with the condensed milk added it to the grated coconut and that was our evening meal... I thought sod this so I headed down to the BBQ chicken stall up the road but they weren't open because it was raining,,, I can tell you the next day the rice bin was full and the food shelf full...

Maybe I've just had it to good in life but that was the eye opener for me...

But what really does it for me is the look in the eyes of these people when I leave to come back to France after my monthly visit says it all,,, the tears of her Father don't lye, he doesn't speak English but hes learned to say while hugging me before I leave "I love you Mike" while the tears are falling,, if that wouldn't bring a lump to a guys throat I really and truly don't know what would.

So your comment about getting pleasure from giving I can relate to so well...

If I or we as a family do manage to find a solution I surely will post it in the hope that it might serve to help others in the same situation....

In the mean time the best of luck to all, and once again thanks Seram,,,

Mike001

[Gene and Viol]

Originally Posted by Unggoy_Tatay

It is absolutely true that the Philippines is not cheap. I always hear that from people. I've lived on and off for 15 years or so. Not only is it not cheap, it is more expensive in many ways.

It is possible to live off of savings. Particularly, if you can work in Japan,Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Thailand, etc. say for 6 months or even one month in some cases, return here and be fat for a year or two.

As for work? You can work anywhere you want here. The few exceptions are military, congress, presidency, etc. Other than that, it's fairly easy to get a job here. Wages are high, at 15,000 minimum pay in the NCR. Depending on your job, you can get 2-6 times that.

Why most foreigners say the best thing is to become a business owner here is beyond me. You can only own 40% of the business and you cannot own the property it is on.

So why are there so many unemployed here? Firstly, there's not. The Philippines has a lower unemployment rate than the USA, Spain, Ireland, and about a hundred other nations. Many nations, such as Spain, have THREE times the unemployment rate.

Secondly, the unemployed here are the same as the unemployed elsewhere. They simply do not have the will and determination.

Disagree-cost of living here IS much lower than in the states and most other places that is a fact. Else why would so many (including myself) live here for the purpose of enjoying life while spending less?

The unemployment rate really is very high in the Philippines. Many areas have over 80% unemployment. Where there is employment, the vast majority never see the daily minimum wage and live on less than P200 per day-that too is a fact of life here.

Foreigners in fact can not work just anywhere. We are restricted to jobs that a local would not be able to do for the most part and even then a work permit is required. Wages for us as foreigners are usually not very high when compared to wages in our home countries.

There, now with that said I can go back to sleep...

[Mike001]

Hi Everyone,
Just to add to the comments made,,,,
I tend to agree with what has been said regarding unemployment,, it seems in the area I visit monthly if you don't work you don't eat so that surely would give people the incentive to find something to keep their belly's full ,,, hence the low unemployment rate,,, they don't have a social security system to fall back on like the rest of us in Europe,,, however weather you would actually class them as "employed" is another story.

What ever about the 200pesos a day,, sounds about right but there are many in my area who don't manage to scrape that much together in a day,,, then of course we are talking about the able bodied individuals,,,, they often have elderly or young dependents,,, what happens in those cases???
In addition there are 7 days in a week so unlike the 35hour working week in France where we can enjoy our weekends of leisure and paid annual holidays unfortunately the ones I'M referring to don't have that luxury.

I heard it mentioned also that its cheaper to live in the Phils than in the US, well never having been to the US I can't comment however living in Europe I can,,, of course it depends on the lifestyle a person wants to lead but if they are happy with rice and sardines 2 or3 times a day for the rest of there lives then I suppose it could be done very cheaply, this is not my idea of life but then that's what a family can expect bringing in 200pesos a day.

I've seen the look in the Father of my future wife's eyes when he comes back from a WHOLE nights fishing with an empty fish box, I can tell you I could cry for him and often silently did,,, a once proud man reduced to nothing,,, soul destroying.
A reasonably fit 62 year old man now still able to go fishing for a WHOLE night but where will time leave him and his family...

I'm just an ordinary man having had reasonable good fortune in business so I don't mind putting meat on the table and rice in the rice bin.
But don't worry folks I'm not one of these who fell in to the meal ticket trap by finding a beautiful young Philippina girl just looking to feed her family,,, as the Irish say I wasn't reared looking out through the pipe of a tea kettle... I'v seen that trap so many times before,,, and so many who have fell for it...

But please NO more comments on how cheap and easy it is to live in the Philippines if you are not one of them,,, try leaving your pensions in the country where they come from and your foreign wage source and try living like a local for a month then come back and make your comments,,, I guarantee you will be singing a different tune by then... that's even if you make it to the end of the month... do you all out there think these people live like this through choice???

This thread was started on "Making a living in the PHILIPPINES, how hard can that be??? Please lets stick to the point here...


Best wishes and good luck to all,,,,
Mike001

[Gene and Viol]

Amen Mike and I do agree with all you are saying. Life is hard for locals and I've even seen my share of expats that through their own fault/misfortune, have ended up in the same financial boat as the locals or in the grave. Sad situation for sure.

I will leave this thread open for now and agree with Mike---lets get back on topic in the thread--


Gene