Its True - Kiwis dont really like Amercians.

[Eleisha]

That's ok Bev, it just felt like people were blaming me.

Half of the problem is that New Zealand is seen as such a marvelous place by the people who are happy there, or who have never lived there, that's it's very hard to comprehend that it has these massive problems that affect people so badly.

It's not just a case of adapt and survive, change your perceptions and it will all be ok because I tried that and it didn't work. I'm ashamed to say that it defeated me and I had to leave, I'm a person who has never given up on something before so it was very hard. That decision which since proved to be the right one. I take some comfort in knowing that I'm not the only one this has happened to and that there are heaps of other people out there who feel the same as me.

[jenswaters]

Oh, this argument could go on forever!!

From my travels and experiences, every "country" has an opinion and point of view on pretty much every other country. Not every individual in that nation would hold true to this generic prespective, but an opinion has been formed. They are nearly always based on pre-conceived ideas and propoganda given by media. A classic example I will share is my dear Mother, who was travelling through a European country. She was there for just a few hours, spoke to 2 people (1 of whom she says was rude), but according to her (and anyone who is narrow-minded enough to listen and agree with her), the whole country is rude and horrible and not worth visiting!!! See?? A judgement that is passed on, generalising a whole country on a handful of experiences.

I have met and worked with my fair share of Americans, some of whom fill the stereotypical "bigger and better" role, and some of whom don't and are very self-depreciating. But I would never judge the whole country in this way, and it is unfair for anyone to be this narrowminded. Having said that, I can understand what Ripeka was trying to say and do...simply explain to the American population some of the possible obstacles that they may face culturally. This is a reserved and humble nation, and ANYBODY (American or otherwise) needs to remember and adjust to that. However, as Eleisha points out clearly, sometimes you will meet people that cannot see past their pre-conceived ideas regardless of the efforts made to change and adapt. This can happen anywhere (as my Mother made painfully obvious to me)

Different countries, different cultures, different people having different experiences. Anywhere and everywhere, people have either made the best decision of their lives, or the worst, by moving country. It's tough, but sometimes you just don't know until you try. Well done Eleisha for giving it a go. What I am super impressed with (and what many people who have left or had a bad experience don't do) is your ability to NOT slate the country you were in. You have actually put it down to "one of those things"...a life experience. I hope that your life has benefitted in some way from your time in NZ, even if it is ways you didn't expect!

[Eleisha]

I have taken some very positive things away from me, I love the country and would happily go back for on vacation maybe to ski in the winter when I can afford it. It's taught me to be a lot more cautious and to really examine the small print when looking at the possibilities for future working locations.

As for now, I'm enjoying my well earned sabbatical and feeling enthusiastic about getting out there again and giving it a go. It's given me the chance to examine Australia more closely and I think that I may have a real future here.

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by Eleisha

It's not just a case of adapt and survive, change your perceptions and it will all be ok because I tried that and it didn't work.

That's a very perceptive comment. We get folks here on the forum all the time who are bound and determined to "make a new life" for themselves somewhere else in the world. Sometimes good intentions just aren't enough to make a go of it - so it's important to have a "plan B" just in case things don't work out.

One problem with Americans is that we are raised to this fairly wide-open social code, where we just introduce ourselves and expect to be "friends" fairly easily with just about anyone. In other cultures, there are steps that need to be taken and customs to be observed, and the "friendly" American can come off like an interfering boor without realizing what he or she is doing.

It's a small thing, but when I worked in Germany, everyone in the plant addressed each other as "Herr" This and "Frau" That and we never used first names. Then, the bosses would descend on the place and address people not only by their first names, but by nicknames for their first names - "Dave" instead of "David" or "Rob" instead of "Robert." The Germans go by full names, even with friends, so it's no wonder the "suits" from Corporate (Brits and Americans) were so disliked.
Cheers,
Bev

[topcat83]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

...
It's a small thing, but when I worked in Germany, everyone in the plant addressed each other as "Herr" This and "Frau" That and we never used first names. Then, the bosses would descend on the place and address people not only by their first names, but by nicknames for their first names - "Dave" instead of "David" or "Rob" instead of "Robert." The Germans go by full names, even with friends, so it's no wonder the "suits" from Corporate (Brits and Americans) were so disliked.
....

This made me laugh, as we've just put our foot in it big time with my Mum's solicitors secretary in the UK - and we're Brits!
I might add that Mum's solicitor is a long-term family friend.
We turned up with Art in shorts and me in 'pedal-pusher' denims, and asked to speak to 'Liz'. The secretary came out, gave us (and our clothes) a disgusted look, and told us that 'Miss Craig will see you as soon as she is available'. I think she was a bit put out when Liz came out almost immediately and welcomed us like long lost relatives!!!

[owlet]

Originally Posted by ripeka

Rightly or wrongly WE:

a. View your political antics on the world stage with suspicion

b. Are scathing of the arrogance with which the USA has dismissed UN directives (eg over Iraq) and initiatives such as the Kyoto Protocol – truly your arrogance on the world stage is breathtaking;

c. Believe that your country thinks it is a law unto yourselves and we don’t respect that

d. Feel you selfishly gobble up far too much of the world’s resources – much more than your share

e. Believe that given the size of your country, you have had the capacity to do things like end world hunger but because it is not in your political interests to do so, you don’t bother

f. View your extroverted nature with suspicion as some sort of attempt to dominate others by being the biggest and loudest and having a superior attitude (much as you attempt to dominate the world stage)

g. See much of your sense of humour as being corny and simplistic (eg the only sitcoms we really like are those that rely on an ironic, more sarcastic or dry humor)

h. Cant believe how many people in the USA seem to be gullible and just not all that intelligent (that’s the result of those day time chat shows/media/trashy magazines/Hollywood superstar silly behaviour that don’t present you in a good light)

i. Resent that the USA sets a trend and a few short years later we have it happening in our society eg increasing obesity. Given media influence and the economic power of your corporates, we feel powerless to stop this and really really don’t like it.

I'm not offended by Ripeka at all. She has stated she doesn't necessarily agree with most of this mentality (which, no matter how justified, does become bigotry if it is allowed to inform one's treatment of an individual simply b/c of her nationality).

As an American who's traveled abroad, I've experienced this type of discrimination from people of many nationalities (I was in western Europe and UK at the outset of the Iraqi War). Fortunately for me, I tend to agree with this assessment. There are serious problems in America--though, to be fair, every country has its share of imperfections. The fact that I acknowledge America's problems and share my exasperation has enabled me to bond with several people who were initially hostile, and (I hope) has left them a little more open-minded than before.

The thing is to have the right attitude from the start: expect this to happen (unfair, yes, but the world is full of inequities); make it clear that you agree with the other person to some degree (which you must--otherwise, why are you an expatriate?), and be prepared (if you do want to form lasting relationships there) to have a respectful discussion about the state of America (politically, economically, globally); and--this last is really important--make sure you know your stuff. If you don't, you may be seen as inauthentic, spineless, and/or a suck-up. Oh, and don't take what is said during that conversation personally--it's about America, not you--or it just may get a little more personal than you or the other person would like.

On that note, none of this was directed at any particular thread respondent. I'm just sharing a strategy (well, less strategy than respect for others, objectivity, and rational discourse) that's worked for me.

[UglyAmerican]

A friend shared this forum post with me, knowing that I am soon to leave NZ and that I've had a long history of difficulties as an American living here.

Interesting reading. Lots of generalizations, on all sides, which perfectly exemplify what I don't like about being an American Expat.

All of what Ripeka stated about how NZ views America is true - in a general sense. I'd say her assessment was quite measured and that in fact the average view of an American by Kiwis is far more hostile. And yes, sadly, all of us are tarred with the same brush.

My experience in NZ has put me off living overseas ANYWHERE again -- heck, it's practically put me off traveling any more. But I'll regain my confidence.

Good luck to you, NZ. You won't be missed, and I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

[sfed]

...to the many Americans with 'stars in their eyes' who dream of moving to NZ. What you have written has a lot of truth. I find it interesting that much of the criticism being leveled at this post is from people who do NOT live in NZ!!

We have lived here four years and most of the true friends we have made are fellow ex-pats either from Europe or the US. The only Kiwis we are friends with are those that have lived in the US or lived abroad and therefore have a less insular view of the world.

It's all well and good for Kiwis to say that they judge people individually. But, it can be rare to find employers that will hire Americans. There is overt discrimination when it comes to hiring. [NOTE: this is not true in the IT industry which HAS to hire Americans due to the lack of qualified New Zealand applicants.] It's bad enough that it will be difficult to find friends, but you will have real problems if you cannot find employment.

Eleisha--I'm so sorry that things did not work out for you. We will be leaving ourselves soon. Although I still like NZ, my husband has hated the last 2 years. And, I was not willing to have him move back to the US without me.

~Stacey

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by sfed

...to the many Americans with 'stars in their eyes' who dream of moving to NZ. What you have written has a lot of truth. I find it interesting that much of the criticism being leveled at this post is from people who do NOT live in NZ!!

Stacey, I don't think anyone here has denied the truth in the original post. But it's not limited to NZ. You find pretty much the same attitudes throughout Europe, and I suspect, most other places.

The point is, that this goes along with the notion of being an expat. Especially an American living abroad since it's the "American way of life" that is what seems to be promoted and marketed all over the world lately. And perhaps a bit due to the fact that Americans tend to be a bit isolated and maybe a little defensive when it comes to other cultures. (Maybe that affects the Kiwis, too.)

If you take a look at some of the other forums here, I know you'll find comments about how the locals only hire their own - certainly in France, and probably in many of the other forums, too. And I've heard many of the same sorts of criticisms leveled at the Brits by French people here in France (kind of a traditional bias, I guess). When I lived in the UK, I learned of the rather appalling reputation the Germans have as vacationers when outside Germany - and living in Germany I found that much of it was true.
Cheers,
Bev

[NZCowboy]

Originally Posted by NZCowboy

Are you not a kiwi then?
I have read your post again carefully ...
You use term "we" all though the OP, that implies that you belong to this group, but now you are saying that even you belong to this group, this isn't your thinking.
These aren't your words or opinions, why use we?
I know you are new to this forum, if these aren't your words, its net etiquette, to reference to the source.

This information "why we hate the americans" is a global thing, and has been doing the rounds for ages, its not unique to kiwis.
Any Expat American should be a aware of this global feeling. Do some "googling" and there is heaps of websites and articles expressing the same views.
I have been searching for a British newspaper article that was printed over 3 years ago which says similar things, but haven't found it yet. But I did find an email from I received 20months ago - "6 reasons why we hate america." and it has the first six reasons nearly word for word, but from a British slant not Kiwi. Thats why I was asking about the source.

I have been waiting for your following up, giving expats in NZ information that is unique to NZ, not a just a global view such as..
Why Kiwis Hate the Frenchies
a/ French serect service had the audacity to sink a ship in a NZ port.
b/ Past nuclear testing in the Pacific
c/ They keep knocking us out of the Rugby World Cup
etc etc