Help put our minds at rest

[wammers]

Hi

We have made our decision that we are ready to leave the UK and move over to NZ. Our plan is to do this between August and September 2010. This is a very big move for us as we have been in the UK all our lives but think that now is the time for a change.

My husband and I are both self employed (Tony-plumbing/heating & me-health/fitness/beauty) and have worked 24/7 for years now and are looking to get out of this rat race and provide our 16 year old daughter with better prospects than the UK are currently providing.

We both read with interest all the postings on this site and up until now we have never doubted that we are making the right decision. However we seem to regularly be coming across negative comments about life in NZ and this is started to slightly cloud our thoughts.

We understand that everyone has their own opinion and not everyone will be have had a great experience with their move but we are looking for some honest encouragement that we are doing the right thing.

Our reasons for wanting to come to NZ are as follows:
1. provide a better work/life balance for us all
2. see another part of the world
3. great landscape and outdoor life
4. get away from our claiming society, high taxes, non-sensical policies & immigration problem in UK
5. lesser population-more space
6. overall quality of life

We are in quite a fortunate position and hope to take a good look around north and south island before decided where to settle. Then bearing in mind our family requirements we will find employment (hopefully) or set up our own business, rent some accomodation while searching for a home to purchase.

If you have done similar to this and have any comments or advise to pass on to us, we would love to hear from you. We are very down to earth, practical people and as much we hope your comments are positive, we appreciate that some may be otherwise.

Looking forward to your replies

Mandy & Tony

[wammers]

Hi Rundle

Many thanks for your reply. Obviously we will take on board all that you have said and take into great consideration many of your interesting facts. All your points seem valid and understandable but the fact still remains that the overall situation in the UK is DESPERATE! And we cant see it improving for many years if it ever does.

I dont think we are going into this venture lightly or with rose-tinted glasses but realistically, whats the worst that can happen?... we maybe lose some of our hard-earned cash and we dont settle, so we have to move back or try somewhere else. The worst that can happen for me, is that I get another 10/20 years older and look back with regret that we never gave it a go. Life is too short for regrets.

The points you make about teenagers can really be said of anywhere. Regarding our daughter-no we havent done a hard sell to her and as she sits her gcse's this May/June and is coming to a crossroad in her life, this year seems to be the right year to move. She is a little bit concerned about leaving her friends but on the whole she is quietly excited. Being a bubbly friendly confident girl, I dont think she will have many problems making new ones. She will be very involved with the area where we decide to settle as it is imperative that she doesnt feel isolated, so as for us settling somewhere rural isnt probably an option for a few years. In the future if she does decide to move to another country, we will support her all the way and feel proud that we have brought her up to be a bit more adventurous than we have been. Its a big wide world out there and theres so much to see and so little time to do it. Hope that doesnt sound too harsh!

Our niece lives in Auckland with her boyfriend (both english) and she has been there over 5 years and wouldnt return to England. She has put our daughter in touch with another 16 year old girl that moved to NZ last year from the UK and all sounds good at the moment.

If anyone out there has a teenage child (kiwi or other) that we could chat to, that would be really great. Please get in touch with us.

Rundle-are you still in NZ now or have you moved on?

Speak soon

Mandy

[wammers]

oops forgot to mention, the point you make about immigramts in the NZ being left to themselves-shouldnt this be the case for any immigrant? Unlike the UK-you get into this country and we give you everything at the tax payers expense, thank you very much! A big issue that so many Brits are really cheesed off with and quite right too!!
At least NZ has that one right, in my opinion.

[wammers]

Originally Posted by Rundle

The UK tends to treat both migrants and citizens equally. Anecdotal evidence is that Brit's returning home are not given preferential treatment over other arrivees. Kiwis returning to NZ do.

The impression I had whilst living in NZ is that migrants, especially temp migrants and those from developing countries are 'second class citizens'. Whilst the country will not overtly discourage migration from certain countries (migration brings in a lot of money into the NZ economy regardless of where it orginates) it will won't make it easy for those those it doesn't want, hence the high turnover.



Nothing ventured nothing gained and you need to discover if this will work for you. It's heartening to see that you don't have the rose-tinted spec approach to migration. I will just caution not to lose so much cash of your hard earned cash that you can't afford to change your mind if it doesn't work out.


Moved on. I found the NZ lifestyle to be lacking in many respects. IMO as a country it is far to insular and insecure , it lacks a true sense of purpose and struggles with its identity. Not that you are going to find it the same but I'm just pre-empting the question you are bound to ask.

My personal opinion is that all countries should look after their own citizens over migrants just the way that NZ appears to do. It is all very well welcoming all and sundry into your country, so long as it doesnt bleed all the resources for looking after their own when its needed. I think that many Brits would agree with me on this one?

When we come to NZ we wont expect any special treatment and know that we will have to look after ourselves. We feel very lucky that we are going to be able to experience such different ways of life in an amazingly beautiful country. However, we will be careful not to overspend just incase the move doesnt suit us.

Quick question-when did you last live in the UK?

[Ginty]

Hi wammers,

me and my husband emigrated to NZ in 2005, we had no kids at the time, we wanted a better way of life and somewhere nicer than the UK to start a family, as we felt all we did in UK was work to pay the mortgage and didnt really have quality time with each other so we sold our house, and had a fair bit of money.

we spent the first few months sightseeing etc tc, loved it, we rented a house and we both got good jobs, equivalent to what we had in UK, my job was for the NZ government!!

we had a ball for a year or so, then reality hit, it is way more expensive to live over there, the electricity bills, food shopping, etc etc are extortionate, we found that we were always just getting by, we tried to convince ourself that the lifestyle, weather, beaches made up for it, but it eventually got too much. Its not fun when u cant afford to go for a nice meal out or a drink at the pub when you are a young couple. the reason we left the UK was cos we didnt see each other as we were working different shifts, In NZ we saw each other all the time but couldnt afford to do anything, except work!! and you always have to have money in the bank just in case, a visit to the doctor cost 60 dollars, my husband got bad tonsilitus and had to go into hospital for a week, we got a 900 dollar bill for it!! we also had to renew our visas yearly, which cost us 800 dollars EACH for medicals, prescriptions are 15 dollars each, you even have to pay for the contraceptive pill!!

i fell pregnant with my daughter last year and as soon as she was born, we came home, im now a full time mum and my husband works, we have a good lifestyle, we could not have done that in NZ, you only get maternity pay for 13 weeks, and i could not hand my baby to a childminder when she was 13 weeks old and pay her a fortune for it!! But i HAD to work to survive, it was a horrible situation.

on the other hand, im so glad i went and had 4 years experience of living there, we met some great lifelong friends, and i dont regret a minute of it. But now i am back home, i appreciate so much, i have a new found total respect for our NHS, as my daughter has been bad with colic and has been at the doctor numerous times because of it, if i was still in NZ the bill would be in the hundreds!!

[katipo]

When I was living in the UK I also struggled to pay bills, especially rent, food and transport. My savings disappeared like water down the drain. It may be different if you have a high paying job or are a PR. My friends still live there and have really struggled over the years. They're in I.T. but have never found it easy. They can't travel like they used to before the recession, so won't be returning home for family visits for a very long time.

For NZ citizens public hospital stays are also free. If you can't afford prescriptions or doctors fees you can apply for a Community Services card, and if eligible the charges go down to as little as $17 a visit, and only a couple of dollars for prescriptions. The NHS must indeed be terrific, but am pretty sure I wouldn't have been given free treatment as a visitor or non resident. Our health system is far from perfect, but a damn site kinder to poor people than many richer nations. e.g. USA

[katipo]

Originally Posted by Rundle

Last time I was in NZ (six months ago) I was counting down the hours until I could get out again and I was only there for a weekend to visit friends!

Wow, you seem to have a real chip on your shoulder, or perhaps the whole bag of spuds.

You obviously had some really bad experiences that have left you extremely bitter. In fact I think every time there is mention of feedback for potential NZ migrants you jump in and immediately rubbish NZ. I believe people should be prepared, the grass is not always greener, and definitely don't come over expecting a fantasy land, but you seem to be on a pilgrimage to dissuade everyone.

If the UK is so great, why don't you move back there. I'm sure your health care isn't free in Aussie either.

I've spent quite some time in Aussie (I'm half Aussie), but it certainly is far from perfect also. I don't see the point in rubbishing it though. Try to a little more objective and less bitter. Not everyone has had your terrible experiences, and it sounds like you moved in extremely small isolated circles.

Instead of looking for fights here (which you seem to revel in), why not let someone else have a go replying here who doesn't completely hate NZ, has had a less horrible experience, and can post something constructive to help the original poster. Far too much negativity - life is too short to be so bitter...

[wammers]

Hello again

Reply to Rundle
Sorry to say this Rundle, but I agree with much of what Katipo has said. You clearly have had a rotten time in NZ and this has obviously had a big impact on you. Sorry to hear that, really.
However, maybe you can just think back to how you felt when you left the UK and set off to NZ. You must have been excited about going and ready to embrace another way of life? You obviously had reasons for leaving the UK and you must have thought NZ was going to offer you more than you already had. By the way, what were your reasons for going to NZ anyway? Did you go with rose-tinted glasses and NZ not come up to expectation? Also, how old are you too? Questions questions!!!

It is always good to hear all points of view, so am not knocking your honesty, but you do seem to be very bitter and are doing your utmost to deter anyone from trying out a new place and new life. It would be nice to hear some of your better experiences-there must have been a few? Have to say though, you,ve not put us off. We really dont have anything to lose and have got so much to gain (being virgins to this expat lifestyle an' all!)

Reply to Ginty
Thank you Ginty for your contribution too. Glad to hear that your NZ experience wasnt all bad and glad to hear you have no regrets even though it didnt work out for you. I see that you're from Scotland and I assume you have moved back there? Scotland is really beautiful too (we holiday there every year and love it). Hope everything works out for you back here and that you dont start to regret your return back to UK, like so may people that we know are doing. Now that is expensive!
Unfortunately for us, we are quite a way further on with our lives than you lucky people, and our kids are much older. I think that will make a big difference to our experience compared to yours. Having a young family can be very expensive (as i well know) but for me I dont want our daughter to get caught up in the rat race of having to earn such a lot in order to 'keep up with the Jones's' like over her in the UK. I want her to see that life is what you make it and the most important thing is to be true to yourself and enjoy the freedom of your youth. Life can be stifling over here for young people-so much pressure to look good, have all the latest expensive gadgets (better than your friends) and isolated that they spend all their time talking to their friends over a screen instead of having fun outside. Not sure if Scotland is quite that bad yet and lets hope for your sake it doesnt get that way either.

It's great to hear from all of you anyway, so thanks very much for your comments.

Please keep them coming

xx

[topcat83]

Originally Posted by wammers

Our reasons for wanting to come to NZ are as follows:
1. provide a better work/life balance for us all
2. see another part of the world
3. great landscape and outdoor life
4. get away from our claiming society, high taxes, non-sensical policies & immigration problem in UK
5. lesser population-more space
6. overall quality of life

Hi there

If these are your reasons for coming here (with maybe a question on point 4 - there's politics everywhere!) then NZ answered all of these for us.

But - I think it is good to come over with some nervousness - of course it's not perfect, and it is the people who come over here expecting it to be who are the most disillusioned.

I think you've come across some severely disillusioned posters (and one who just likes to wind things up) on this forum. And these tend to be the more verbal ones. There are many satisfied immigrants who have got past the forum stage, and therefore don't comment.

Just balance the comments.

[sdh080]

Originally Posted by Rundle

4. claiming society, high taxes, non-sensical policies & immigration problem in UK.
You may be exchanging like for like with these. NZ is often criticized for having a benefit's culture and a lot of tax payers resent keeping generations of the same family in the style that they've become accustomed to. As for tax, I think that NZ has the worlds 2nd highest level of personal income tax (the UK has the 11th) There are no personal tax allowances. Everyone pays taxes and then has to complete a tax return at the end of the year, lower earners may get something back but it does take into account money earned on any net savings you have (which are also taxed at source)

Do you have a more up to date version of that one since the details are for 2002?

I quickly went to tax calculators for the UK and entered equivalent salaries.

In the UK the total tax paid(including NI) was 28% of salary and for NZ it was 30% of salary.

It's not a huge difference in taxation, that's purely comparing income tax on salary in both countries.

Tax is paid on savings in both countries as well, I'm struggling to figure out where the huge differential comes from.