Most Scenic Mountain Towns...

[vantexan]

Ran across a Pueblo Magico called Zacatlan in Pueblo State that has a terrific setting at edge of large canyon. Has 29,000 population, good infrastructure, not too far from Puebla. And a city, Tehuacan, that's halfway between Puebla and Oaxaca, 240,000, not touristy but nice with Sam's Club, Autozone, a large multiplex theater, seems totally off the radar. And finally Comitan, Chiapas, at over 5100 ft has a pleasant climate. San Cristobal de las Casas gets all the tourists but Comitan might be better for living. Their zocalo has free wi-fi, could see wandering down there every day and reading USA Today on an iPad. I'm sure there are other places worthwhile, and I think my first year might be spent traveling to see a number of them.

[Hound Dog]

We are retirees who have lived in Mexico for about ten years wirth homes in both Ajijic, Jalisco and San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas. We also often visit the Oaxaca Coast and Oaxaca City. When we visit Oaxaca City we usually stay with friends about 20 kilometers out of the city in the Zapoteco town of Teotitlan del Valle which is not in a spectacular setting although very close to some beautiful small mountain towns such as nearby Benito Juarez. I don´t think you would be welcomed as a foreigner to live full time in most of the indigenous villages near Oaxaca but there are some rural communities with fairly substantial foreign expat communities which you could explore while using Oaxaca as a base.

I agree with another poster who said he/she doesn´t think of Oaxaca City as a spectacular mountain town . It certainly has a beautiful historic center with many architectural treasures but it might also prove difficult to find reasonably priced atttractive housing in the historic center.

We moved to San Cristóbal in 2006 to live seasonally in the winter which is the dry season in Chiapas and, when they say rainy season in Chiiapas, they really mean it so keep that in mind. We have maintained a residence on Lake Chapala since 2001 and the climate there at 5,000 feet is undeniably great almost all the time. We definitely did not move part of the year from Lake Chapala because of the weather but because we needed a seasonal escape from the major influence of the large American and Canadian expat retiree community at what is locally known as Lakeside. The Chiapas Highlands provided that escape to say the least and we find the cultural and environmental change stimulating. However, when it comes to a spectacular mountain setting you will find that the only way you can determine what you really like is to vist these places you are thinking of comparing. For instance, the mountain vistas from certain parts of the Chapala Municipality are more spectaclar than the vistas from San Cristóbal at 7,000 feet but when you drive into the surrounding mountains from San Cristóbal you enter some of the most indescibably beautiful spectacular mountain scenery anywhere but this is all territory governed by the indigenous descendants of the Maya and you are not likely to be welcome as a resident or even a tourist if you are not respectful of local customs so if you chose to live in the Chiapas Highlands, you would be wise to locate your residence in an established urban area of, say San Cristóbal or Comitan for instance.

Before settling on San Cristóbal as a second home base, we considered Oaxaca City but, were frankly put off by the noisy, polluted and frenetic city with traffic bordering on anarchy. We were also unable to find housing that suited us which had to be located in an attractive and more sedate part of the historic center and, at least in 2005, we found a tight real estate market and no residence for sale that we found desireable. That´s just us, however, and many people love Oaxaca City. Give it a try.

[vantexan]

Originally Posted by Hound Dog

We are retirees who have lived in Mexico for about ten years wirth homes in both Ajijic, Jalisco and San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas. We also often visit the Oaxaca Coast and Oaxaca City. When we visit Oaxaca City we usually stay with friends about 20 kilometers out of the city in the Zapoteco town of Teotitlan del Valle which is not in a spectacular setting although very close to some beautiful small mountain towns such as nearby Benito Juarez. I don´t think you would be welcomed as a foreigner to live full time in most of the indigenous villages near Oaxaca but there are some rural communities with fairly substantial foreign expat communities which you could explore while using Oaxaca as a base.

I agree with another poster who said he/she doesn´t think of Oaxaca City as a spectacular mountain town . It certainly has a beautiful historic center with many architectural treasures but it might also prove difficult to find reasonably priced atttractive housing in the historic center.

We moved to San Cristóbal in 2006 to live seasonally in the winter which is the dry season in Chiapas and, when they say rainy season in Chiiapas, they really mean it so keep that in mind. We have maintained a residence on Lake Chapala since 2001 and the climate there at 5,000 feet is undeniably great almost all the time. We definitely did not move part of the year from Lake Chapala because of the weather but because we needed a seasonal escape from the major influence of the large American and Canadian expat retiree community at what is locally known as Lakeside. The Chiapas Highlands provided that escape to say the least and we find the cultural and environmental change stimulating. However, when it comes to a spectacular mountain setting you will find that the only way you can determine what you really like is to vist these places you are thinking of comparing. For instance, the mountain vistas from certain parts of the Chapala Municipality are more spectaclar than the vistas from San Cristóbal at 7,000 feet but when you drive into the surrounding mountains from San Cristóbal you enter some of the most indescibably beautiful spectacular mountain scenery anywhere but this is all territory governed by the indigenous descendants of the Maya and you are not likely to be welcome as a resident or even a tourist if you are not respectful of local customs so if you chose to live in the Chiapas Highlands, you would be wise to locate your residence in an established urban area of, say San Cristóbal or Comitan for instance.

Before settling on San Cristóbal as a second home base, we considered Oaxaca City but, were frankly put off by the noisy, polluted and frenetic city with traffic bordering on anarchy. We were also unable to find housing that suited us which had to be located in an attractive and more sedate part of the historic center and, at least in 2005, we found a tight real estate market and no residence for sale that we found desireable. That´s just us, however, and many people love Oaxaca City. Give it a try.

Hi Hound Dog,
I'm the guy who asked what had happened to you recently on Mexconnect's Southern Mexico forum. Most likely I'll initially come down in a small rv and camp in the rv park in San Felipe del Agua outside of Oaxaca. I've seen enough pics and videos of Oaxaca to conclude it's a big city with all that implies but if anything is spectacular about it then it's the Centro. Just seems a good starting point as it has the elements necessary for starting out as an expat who lacks deep pockets, or at least deeper pockets than mine.
I really enjoyed your descriptions of Comitan here and elsewhere. You mentioned La Trinitaria to someone awhile back and you may be the sole authority on that town on the 'net. If I end up in Comitan it's good to know about such options.
Most likely as a victim of this economy I'll go for the most bang for the buck and that appears to be Oaxaca. I find quite a few places further north interesting but I'll either end up in a place with little to offer or one I can't afford if I move up there. Fortunately Southern Mexico has plenty to offer and I want to say thanks for being a great advocate and source of knowledge. If there's one question I would ask it's do you find the highlands of southern Vera Cruz a worthwhile possibility? Curious as to why Orizaba is so affordable. Regards, vantexan

[Hound Dog]

Originally Posted by vantexan

Hi Hound Dog,
I'm the guy who asked what had happened to you recently on Mexconnect's Southern Mexico forum. Most likely I'll initially come down in a small rv and camp in the rv park in San Felipe del Agua outside of Oaxaca. I've seen enough pics and videos of Oaxaca to conclude it's a big city with all that implies but if anything is spectacular about it then it's the Centro. Just seems a good starting point as it has the elements necessary for starting out as an expat who lacks deep pockets, or at least deeper pockets than mine.
I really enjoyed your descriptions of Comitan here and elsewhere. You mentioned La Trinitaria to someone awhile back and you may be the sole authority on that town on the 'net. If I end up in Comitan it's good to know about such options.
Most likely as a victim of this economy I'll go for the most bang for the buck and that appears to be Oaxaca. I find quite a few places further north interesting but I'll either end up in a place with little to offer or one I can't afford if I move up there. Fortunately Southern Mexico has plenty to offer and I want to say thanks for being a great advocate and source of knowledge. If there's one question I would ask it's do you find the highlands of southern Vera Cruz a worthwhile possibility? Curious as to why Orizaba is so affordable. Regards, vantexan

Vantexan:

Thanks for You comment on my recent absence from the Mexico Connect Southern Mexico Forum. While I don´t post any longer on Mexico Connect where I, for several years posted comments about our lives here in Chiapas, I do read comments over there on occasion and appreciate your inquiry. You can still go to the archives at Mexico Connect and find many posts I made there over the years since 2002 both originally as "Bubba" and most recently as "Hound Dog". In fact, I was their most prolific poster for maybe nine years and my wife still posts there. As you can see, I still frequently read and post on this forum as well as the Lake Chapala Insider´s Forum and the All Mexico Oracle Forum out of Morelia which has a wider readership than the Chapala forum which concentrates more on happenings at and around Lake Chapala .

I agree that Oaxaca City is a good starting point for you as you get more acquainted with Southern Mexico and the fact that you can rent in an RV park is a good economic plus which also gives you the flexibility to move on down the road if you become disillusioned with Oaxaca. Remember that, among the reasons we settled on San Cristóbal de Las Casas was the fact that one of our important goals was to buy a home in the old colonial historic district of a southern Mexico city and, in 2005 when we were looking at Oaxaca as an alternative, we really couldn´t achieve our goal there in a very illiquid real estate market in the nicer parts of centro where really charming colonial homes are not that often on the market or at least that was the case in 2005 . San Cristóbal, a charming and mostly tranquil smaller city more readily met our needs and Chiapas is a fascinating place of often great beauty so we chose Chiapas. That doesn´t mean we don´t visit Oaxaca from the coast to the city often since it´s also a fascinating and beautiful place.

As for the cities of Comitan and La Trinitaria in the Chiapas Highlands, you may find that someday they better suit your needs but I think you are wise indeed to start with Oaxaca City as these two Chiapas cities are somewhat isolated and one´s Spanish needs to be really good to keep from being quite isolated in that region. Many Chiapanecos, especially from the capital of Tuxtla Gutierrez, think that Comitan is a better place to live than San Cristóbal but these folks are native Chipanecos and this is their ancestral stomping grounds. That sense of isolation should be mitigated by getting your feet wet in Oaxaca City with its fairly significant expat population and big city cultural advantages.

More later, I have an errand to run.

[Hound Dog]

VanTexan:

Sorry to cut my comments short momentarily but I wanted to get back to you on two issues you brought up I failed to address. That would be the question of why Orizaba is "so affordable" and whether or not the highlands of Southern Veracruz are a worthwhile possibility. When you say Southern Veracruz, I presume you mean from the Orizaba- Cordoba corridor south to the Oaxaca/Tabasco/Chiapas state lines which covers a lot of territory. Ever since we moved to Chiapas in 2006, we have annually spent several days a year in Orizaba and Fortin de Las Flores on our way from Chapala to Chiapas and at one time we considered movng to Fortin and you are correct that it is pretty affordable there but later we decided against that move because we came to dislike the chilly dampness and persistent drear and chipi-chipi in much of Highland Veracruz which is significantly affected by humid breezes blowing in from the Gulf and the northerlies that often bring a winter´s chill to the region. Such cities as Orizaba and Xalapa which can otherwise be attractive places to live in many respects can often become dreary with this Gulf Coastal influence. If, on the other hand, you are talikng about the Southern Veracruz Highlands that abut parts of Oaxaca State, Chiapas and Tabasco, let me know and we can discuss that region.

[vantexan]

Originally Posted by Hound Dog

VanTexan:...If, on the other hand, you are talikng about the Southern Veracruz Highlands that abut parts of Oaxaca State, Chiapas and Tabasco, let me know and we can discuss that region.

Thanks for the info. I knew about the chipi-chipis in Xalapa, didn't realize it was common to the entire region. I'm guessing the other regions you mention include Catemaco? I would greatly appreciate hearing about any place you feel would be enjoyable to live in that is affordable. Just saw a video of market day in Coscomatepec, 24 km's north of Fortin. It was made by an American and as he panned around I was struck by the size of the mountain, guessing Pico de Orizaba, that loomed over the town. I would like good scenery, a reasonably mild climate, wi-fi access to the Internet, and to be able to get by without strain on $800 a month, $1000 if that opens up more possibilities. Appreciate it!

[dongringo]

Originally Posted by vantexan

Thanks for the info. I knew about the chipi-chipis in Xalapa, didn't realize it was common to the entire region. I'm guessing the other regions you mention include Catemaco?

I don`t think of Catemaco as a mountain town, but yeah, we could qualify for your requirements.

see: http://www.catemaco.info/media/index.html

[Hound Dog]

Vantexan:
Best to converse with dongringo on the Catemaco area or The Tuxtlas. We have visited this area but only on short visits while passing through. As dongringo noted, this is really not a part of the Southern Veracruz Highlands but I believe would be an inexpensive alternative place to set up residence. This is an attractive and hilly region and may be worth your consideration but Catemaco and The Tuxtlas are located near sea level and Orizaba is at about 4,000 feet.. Perhaps dongringo can give you more accurate information.

I wouldn´t say that chipi-chipi is common to the entire region so I may have mislead you. Xalapa and Orizaba back up to mountainous areas and the moist air from the Gulf tends to back up against the mountainside in those two areas. The same is true in some other places in Northern Veracruz State I believe but I am not very familiar with that area.

By the way, you´d better look into how much independent income you may need to verify to qualify under the new visa rules. I guess you can always come in under the 180 day tourist visa rule but I don´t know what income will be required of you to get an extended visa. Since we are here as permanent residents (the old "inmigrante" card) I haven´t looked into the current rules being proposed at the present time. Maybe someone else can addresss the income issue and I´ll also look into it as that might be a good subject for discussion here.

[ZTraveler]

If you have not been to Xalapa, Veracruz, there are many areas close by that you can get to in day trips which are some of the most beautiful scenic areas in the mountains. You also have a view of Mount Orizaba, which can be had in a day also, but you do best to stay overnight. While in the area of Xalapa, make sure you also visit Xico, and the the Cascada de Texolo, which is the waterfall filmed in the movie "Romancing the Stone." Love it there!

[vantexan]

Originally Posted by dongringo

I don`t think of Catemaco as a mountain town, but yeah, we could qualify for your requirements.

see: catemaco.info Gallery

That's a very well done website, thanks!