Need signature notarized

[TundraGreen]

Originally Posted by Hound Dog

Longford:

You are correct that a notary residing in Mexico cannot meet the legal standard required to be a notary public recognized in the United States. However, when one considers the obligation of going to the dreadful and degrading Guadalajara U.S. counsulate from Lake Chapala or going to the nearest U.S. consulates from Chiapas ,where we live much of the year, in Mérida or Mexico City, a significant journey in either case, you must think twice about those alternatives. The last time I needed a truly significant document notarized to U.S. standards, I had an old attorney friend in the U.S. notarize my signature for me and there is nothing cheesy about that. The SSA and U.S. banks and the U.S, government treat those of us living down here in retirement as if we could not be trusted for no other reason than that we live in Mexico. It´s disgraceful.

It seems like it is human nature to feel that if something is too expensive or inconvenient then they are justified in finding a short cut. As far as I know, it is illegal for a US notary to notarize something outside of the jurisdiction where they are licensed, as was pointed out earlier in this thread. I believe it is equally illegal for someone to notarize a document if they do not actually witness the signing as suggested above. Maybe someone can correct me on that. Often there are other ways to guarantee a signature. Banks can do that, although when I tried to get a bank here to guarantee my signature they wanted a form in Spanish. However, if you absolutely positively need a US notarized signature and you are in a foreign country, you really have only one option: the consulate/embassy. The alternative---find someone willing to break the rules for you and hope it is never questioned in court---seems a risky shortcut to me.

[makaloco]

It may depend on the purpose of the document and what the party requesting it is willing to accept. My US bank wanted a notarized letter, and when I explained how expensive and impractical it would be to travel to the the consulate to get it done, they said a signature guarantee by a "bank officer" would do. I wrote the letter in English, translated it myself into (definitely imperfect) Spanish on the same page, and signed it in front of my Bancomer branch manager, who also signed and stamped it. There was no charge.

[Longford]

Originally Posted by TundraGreen

I believe it is equally illegal for someone to notarize a document if they do not actually witness the signing as suggested above. Maybe someone can correct me on that.

As has been commented already, the answer here depends largely on how much the OP wants to obey the letter/intent of the rules and also the importance of the document. If the document isn't something that's likely to be challenged in the future than the standards might be lessened. Though I don't think that's the right thing to do. An attorney with whom someone has lengthy experience and who speaks via telephone with someone who's in Mexico and who also has signatures on file with which to compare to ... oftentimes will have the signature notarized and sent back to the client. I think someone should consider this latter option only for documeents which are unimportant. I don't understand the reluctance to visit the Consular office if it's not all that far away. Consider it a shopping trip!

[pappabee]

This thread has become very sad for me. Here we are living in Mexico and trying to get people to understand that they must follow the Mexican laws and we find Americans trying to figure out a way to break the US laws.

A notary in most states has very limited powers. Here's the link to more about them:
Notary public - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is not only illegal but it should be immoral for someone to bread their oath and it also should be immoral for someone to ask for that to be done.

If it's that important to have something notarized then it's worth the effort to have it done correctly.

[Detailman]

Originally Posted by pappabee

This thread has become very sad for me. Here we are living in Mexico and trying to get people to understand that they must follow the Mexican laws and we find Americans trying to figure out a way to break the US laws.

A notary in most states has very limited powers. Here's the link to more about them:
Notary public - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is not only illegal but it should be immoral for someone to bread their oath and it also should be immoral for someone to ask for that to be done.

If it's that important to have something notarized then it's worth the effort to have it done correctly.

I definitely agree with what you, TG and Longford have said.

There is one other thing that should be remembered. If a notarized document is called for and other means are used to circumvent the request it might not matter what you were told by someone in a bank or some other place. Despite what they agree to accept they may not be in the ultimate position to make that decision and if it gets to court and a document is challenged you might not have much success in trying to say: "But so and so said that I could do it a different way this time."

Perhaps he had no right (or authority) to say what he did and especially if it contravenes policy. And you can be called on the carpet for knowing that it was supposed to be notarized and instead looking for a "work around" that was not entirely legal.

When it comes to legal documents, which I have handled for over thirty years, dot every "i" and cross every "t". It is the times that you try to circumvent policy that something comes back and bites you in the ass. Especially if it is in the best interest of some company or their legal representative that you get into a disagreement with. You will be left holding the bag.

[trpt2345]

Originally Posted by Hound Dog

Longford:

You are correct that a notary residing in Mexico cannot meet the legal standard required to be a notary public recognized in the United States. However, when one considers the obligation of going to the dreadful and degrading Guadalajara U.S. counsulate from Lake Chapala or going to the nearest U.S. consulates from Chiapas ,where we live much of the year, in Mérida or Mexico City, a significant journey in either case, you must think twice about those alternatives. The last time I needed a truly significant document notarized to U.S. standards, I had an old attorney friend in the U.S. notarize my signature for me and there is nothing cheesy about that. The SSA and U.S. banks and the U.S, government treat those of us living down here in retirement as if we could not be trusted for no other reason than that we live in Mexico. It´s disgraceful.

Last January I needed a document notarized and went to the consulate in Guadalajara rather than the embassy in DF. (We live in Morelia). We were in and out in fifteen minutes, treated politely by everyone, no problems whatsoever. I thought it curious that most employees were Mexicans who did not speak English, but what the heck. Having dealt with the Mexican consulate in Chicago for many years I thought the US consulate in Guadalajara a model of efficiency.

[mickisue1]

Originally Posted by Hound Dog

Longford:

You are correct that a notary residing in Mexico cannot meet the legal standard required to be a notary public recognized in the United States. However, when one considers the obligation of going to the dreadful and degrading Guadalajara U.S. counsulate from Lake Chapala or going to the nearest U.S. consulates from Chiapas ,where we live much of the year, in Mérida or Mexico City, a significant journey in either case, you must think twice about those alternatives. The last time I needed a truly significant document notarized to U.S. standards, I had an old attorney friend in the U.S. notarize my signature for me and there is nothing cheesy about that. The SSA and U.S. banks and the U.S, government treat those of us living down here in retirement as if we could not be trusted for no other reason than that we live in Mexico. It´s disgraceful.

It's a common misconception that notarization is (or should be, as this poster seems to argue) transferable nation to nation. In fact, a notarized document, whether from the US or MX or any other country, so far as I know, is only acceptable within that country.

Just as a doctor needs to be licensed within MX to practice there, even if she's licensed in the US, a notary's stamp only works in her own country.

For internationally needed documents, an apostille is required. Not because the other country is considered inferior, but because that's the way it works, internationally.

I wonder if whatever agency is requiring notarization would accept an apostille?

[pappabee]

If you live at Lakeside and need something notoarized then check out the Lake Chapala Society becaquse they get a visit form the US Consul once a month. They'll notarize a document for $50.00.

[Hound Dog]

Originally Posted by pappabee

If you live at Lakeside and need something notoarized then check out the Lake Chapala Society becaquse they get a visit form the US Consul once a month. They'll notarize a document for $50.00.

That´s an excellent idea if one lives in or around the Chapala area. For those of you living even fairly close to the LCS in Ajijic this is a good alternative to visiting the U.S. consulate in Guadalajara which I have had occasion to visit (of necessity) many times over the eleven years I have lived at Lakeside which visits have almost almost always been a pain to deal with for a number of reasons. One does not have to be a member of the LCS in Ajijic to utilize the consular services. They visit the LCS every first Wednesday of each month at about 10:00AM after having visited the American Legion post in Chapala before that the same day. Both venues are open to all.

On the other hand, if one lives, as I also do part of the year, in Chiapas, there are no consular visits and one must travel to consulates in Mérida or Mexico City - very long and expensive journeys - to get something notraized to U.S standards. It seems there must be an alternative way to accomplish one´s goal to have a document notarized to U.S. standards but I have yet to find that alternative.

[mickisue1]

Originally Posted by Hound Dog

That´s an excellent idea if one lives in or around the Chapala area. For those of you living even fairly close to the LCS in Ajijic this is a good alternative to visiting the U.S. consulate in Guadalajara which I have had occasion to visit (of necessity) many times over the eleven years I have lived at Lakeside which visits have almost almost always been a pain to deal with for a number of reasons. One does not have to be a member of the LCS in Ajijic to utilize the consular services. They visit the LCS every first Wednesday of each month at about 10:00AM after having visited the American Legion post in Chapala before that the same day. Both venues are open to all.

On the other hand, if one lives, as I also do part of the year, in Chiapas, there are no consular visits and one must travel to consulates in Mérida or Mexico City - very long and expensive journeys - to get something notraized to U.S standards. It seems there must be an alternative way to accomplish one´s goal to have a document notarized to U.S. standards but I have yet to find that alternative.

If I may ask: what in particular makes it such a pain to visit the consulate in Guadalajara?