Hello Querétaro--anyone there?

[Queretaro]

The expat population in Queretaro has been growing very quickly in the last few years due to a combination of retirees moving down here and the growth in industries (like the new bombardier plant). It may not be a secret for long ... whether that is a good thing or bad thing depends on who you ask.

[synthia]

In general, no one should buy in a foreign country until they have rented for a year. And if possible, they should try to keep their investment to a level they can afford to lose. Foreigners tend to pay much more than locals for property, and to have places that are either not to local tastes or would be too expensive even at rock bottom prices. Therefore they are left with only the incoming expat market to sell to. If for any reason the inflow stops (would you like to be selling a condo in Thailand right now?), the property can become virtually worthless.

The stronger people's belief that they are moving to paradise, the more likely they are to return home.

[asegbert]

Hey there - you may have already made your decision by now, but I thought I would toss my two cents in. I've spent some time in all of those cities, and have close friends who are natives from Queretaro and Morelia. I also lived in Queretaro for a semester as a student.

I absolutely loved Queretaro. It has a gorgeous colonial downtown, lots of traditional American amenities (like the previous post said), is one of the cleanest and safest cities in Mexico, and has a connection to the rest of the world (international flair, if you will) while still being one of the most traditional/conservative states in the country. There are lots of restaurants to enjoy, and the city is growing so quickly that there are constantly new and interesting additions. There are quite a few people who speak English, but it's not everywhere since Queretaro isn't as much of a tourist destination (despite its beauty). The city has grown tremendously in the last decade, due to so many moving from Mexico City. It's still growing rapidly. There are lots of American and European students there too. It's a neat location if you are up for some traveling to see the rest of Mexico - it's centrally located and close to Mexico City. The bus terminal is excellent, and Mexico's bus system is excellent, so you can travel anywhere comfortably. San Miguel de Allende is closeby (40 min), and is famous for its large ex-pat population and for art. Tequisquiapan (30-40 min) is famous for its wine and is a beautiful, small colonial town. Mexico City is only 2.5-3 hours. Guanajuato is about 1.5 hours and Morelia is about the same. There are great beaches that aren't far either - Ixtapa is about 7 hours. The taxis and buses in Queretaro are also wonderful. The only problem with the bus system is that it takes getting used to the city first before you can fully utilize the buses. I never got a hold of a map of the system, so I could only take the buses that listed locations on the front that I was familiar with. On more than one occasion, I ended up in completely different places than I had thought I was going to (because I took a chance on destinations listed that I was less familiar with), however I always got myself home and was always safe. I have never had safety issues in the city. The only thing I've heard complaints about are about the police, which are infamously corrupt throughout Mexico. One of my friends has been asked to pay them off after getting pulled over and was then pushed around a little when he didn't - although my guess is that he probably put up a little attitude and that never helps. I've heard that the Queretaro police are among the country's best though, as they were trained by American police. I have also noticed the two-tier pricing (the key is to ask for a price in a store right after a native does - then you can haggle a little easier when they try to tell you something different ). I'm looking at moving back to Queretaro for a year and a half to live and work (after getting the appropriate visas), but I noticed that I really missed the US as I didn't get connected with enough ex-pats to find the connection that I still needed to the states.

As for Morelia...I absolutely love the city. It's beautiful (and has really cleaned up in the last 10 years) and has amazing architecture (stone streets, churches, etc.). It's in a beautifully green state - lots of mountains and lakes. Within a short drive, there's a small town called Patzcuaro, which is famous for some regional dances and its architecture. There's an island right next to Patzcuaro (in a lake surrounded by mountains - beautiful!) called Janitzio that is famous throughout Mexico for it's Day of the Dead celebration, where they cut off all electricity on the island and light it up all over with candles. I've only seen pictures - but it looks amazing. The area strikes me as a city full of interesting culture and traditions. Morelia itself is famous for its coffee, and has some art festivals throughout the year (mostly film, I believe). I do know some natives from Morelia, and as much as they love the city, they have complained about the corruption and one has said how little he feels like he can trust the locals (he now lives in the US). Michoacan (the state where Morelia is located) is infamous for its drug violence. It used to be known as one of the most dangerous places for kidnapping and killing, but has recently been overshadowed by the northern border states. When I was in Morelia, I felt completely safe and was never concerned for my safety. However, all the locals I know do feel that concern and I feel like they likely know the area more than me (clearly ). I do get the sense that it's not within the city, but rather out and around the rest of the state. While I would say this is the most beautiful region of the three cities you mentioned, I would also say it's probably rumored to be the least safe.

Guanajuato is the one I know the least about, although my parents went with me once and my dad decided he wanted to retire there after only a weekend visit. I have only visited a couple times. I absolutely loved it when I was there. It reminds me of old European streets. It's located in the middle of mountains (or hills, if you're from an area with big snow-capped mountains ) and has a decent-sized airport nearby in Leon. The city has a network of tunnels underneath that were created by underground rivers a long time ago, but are now roads. Guanajuato is also famous for its mummy museum, which is morbid but totally interesting. This felt like the biggest tourist destination of the three cities when I was there. However, it does feel more like a small town than the other two, despite it still being a decent-sized city. I always felt completely safe here as well. It has *gorgeous* squares. It is such a neat city to walk through, because the colonial architecture continues forever and ever in all directions and just when you think you've seen it all, you'll come across another quaint little plaza. If you want some better information, you should contact the gentleman who runs The House in Guanajuato. He's an ex-pat retiree with a lot of energy. He owns a bed and breakfast there, and it was in the process of being built when I visited in 2007. The website is houseinguanajuato . com.

Good luck in your search (if its still going on)! Mexico is such a beautiful, interesting country.

[RVGRINGO]

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your very informative post.

[asegbert]

I realized that no one was very specific about the cost of living. I really couldn't say anything about Morelia or Guanajuato, since I never lived in either city. I would imagine that it's fairly similar to Queretaro, and possibly cheaper (Queretaro is a very wealthy city in general).

In Queretaro, I paid about $450/month for a nice apartment (2 bedrooms, 1 bathroom, fully furnished, plus a parking space - utilities were included). It was in a nice, safe area too. You can find apartments for almost any budget in areas all over the town - it's especially easy if you don't need it furnished. There are certainly neighborhoods that are safer than others, so I would recommend getting in touch with an ex-pat via this site before you move to any city in order to find out where you might want to rent (I'm a big advocate for renting for awhile as well!). Unless you know someone else, I wouldn't go with a real estate agent either, seeing as they may take advantage of your lack of knowledge about the area to sell off a less than amazing property.

I didn't have internet or cable TV in my apartment, so I couldn't tell you what those cost. The cost of food is certainly less than it is in the US (unless you are missing American favorites like cheddar cheese or bagels, because they are fairly expensive). I paid about 2/3 of what I paid in the US. Plus it's not too hard to grow a lime or avacado tree, in which case you can get some of your own produce My friends there have trees with all kinds of produce and enjoy that. What's more expensive are electronics and cars. It costs considerably more in Mexico. Computers, appliances, etc. are all more pricey. Gas is also about double the cost as the US (although if you don't mind it taking a little longer to get places or being stared at by kids who haven't seen many foreigners, you can get by without a car). What is fairly uncommon in Mexico is air conditioning and heating. That was probably my biggest complaint about my apartment. In the winter, I was freezing under my covers and eventually had to track down a little space heater which didn't keep up. Then in the summer, I was laying out on the tile floor and still felt like I was going to die of the heat. It's strange though, because I'd say the temp outside was fairly nice year-round. I suppose my apartment windows weren't ideally located If you depend on either AC/heat, you may want to make that a priority when apartment hunting. If it's no big deal, then you'll be fine The natives I know certainly don't mind a bit.

I think the best way to locate housing is to get in touch with an ex-pat, like I mentioned. Or go and get a hotel for a couple weeks while you check out the classifieds in the newspaper. Then visit apartments and judge for yourself. I just searched for areas where I wanted to rent, took into account my budget, and then called up the contacts listed in order to make appointments. I did the latter, and that's how I found my apartment. It was fairly easy and only took a few days. I think if I had spent some more time hunting, I would have found something even cheaper. As far as Queretaro is concerned, I would recommend living in the Centro or one of the Alamos (there are 3). The city is divided into "colonias", or neighborhoods/areas. El Centro, Alamos 1o, Alamos 2o, and Alamos 3o are all very nice areas (plus the Alamos are located between the Centro and the more commercials areas with modern conveniences - although while I walked between the area and the Centro many times, I was told it was not the safest walk to make alone or during dusk/night). I lived in Alamos 3o. If you pick Queretaro, let me know and I can certainly send you a more comprehensive list of colonias that might fit what you're looking for! Good luck!

[GregRG]

Originally Posted by Retiring012

Hello - my husband and I are planning to retire within the next few years to Mexico, due to climate and proximity to the USA. I heard and read great things about Queretaro, Guanajuato and Morelia. Of course, we would have to visit those place to be able to make up our minds, but would love to hear from someone in Queretaro about the good, the bad and the ugly... Don't hold back. Cost of living, safety, infrastructure anything you want to tell me is appreciated.
Thank you in advance,

Okay, my subject line says it all..! We travel to Queretaro for certain shopping (CostCo, Sams Club, Home Depot) but otherwise, it's another huge (miliion plus) city in Mexico. San Miguel de Allende has all the culture, restaurants, and night life of a large city in a 450-year-old UNESCO World Heritage Site of 140,000 people. Why trade one big city for another? We built a house here and love the lifestyle; we try avoiding Queretaro unless we have anb unavoidably large shopping trip, then we hurry back to San Miguel!

[RVGRINGO]

One should definitely visit and compare San Miguel de Allende, Lake Chapala and a few other areas before making any long term decision. There are differences in economy, lifestyle and climate to take into consideration. Then, when a 'first decision' is taken, it would be wise to revisit the other areas in different seasons before one purchases a home; if that is your intention. In many respects, it is like comparing a California, Toronto or New England lifestyle; you may or may not fit.

[asegbert]

Originally Posted by GregRG

Okay, my subject line says it all..! We travel to Queretaro for certain shopping (CostCo, Sams Club, Home Depot) but otherwise, it's another huge (miliion plus) city in Mexico. San Miguel de Allende has all the culture, restaurants, and night life of a large city in a 450-year-old UNESCO World Heritage Site of 140,000 people. Why trade one big city for another? We built a house here and love the lifestyle; we try avoiding Queretaro unless we have anb unavoidably large shopping trip, then we hurry back to San Miguel!

See I LOVE Queretaro. It's also a UNESCO site, and is PACKED with history. The Mexican revolution began in Queretaro, plus Maximiliano (the French emporer) was executed in Queretaro, signaling the end of foreign rule. I feel like San Miguel is more artsy, but Queretaro is also full of culture. It has a great Centro and other sites like Cerro de Las Campanas (the park where Maximiliano was executed).

However, I agree with the moderator in saying that you may not fit everywhere. I love big cities, so it makes sense for me, and sounds like the last poster wasn't a fan of the large city life. Everyone is different and has to find their own fit

[thomas stack]

Originally Posted by Retiring012

Hello - my husband and I are planning to retire within the next few years to Mexico, due to climate and proximity to the USA. I heard and read great things about Queretaro, Guanajuato and Morelia. Of course, we would have to visit those place to be able to make up our minds, but would love to hear from someone in Queretaro about the good, the bad and the ugly... Don't hold back. Cost of living, safety, infrastructure anything you want to tell me is appreciated.
Thank you in advance,

Hello,

my name is Tommy, I am a Irish fella living here in Queretaro with my wife and 3 boys for the last 5 years, we have travelled in mexico during my time here and have yet to find other places with such history and architure to offer, and also good infracture while protecting its historical areas of the centre, it is a really nice place with very friendly locals, the centre is very well done up, and lots of places to eat out, may is the hottest month with tempatures approx 35c and lowest in Dec with temps of approx 20c, rainy season in july and august, but thats usually 3hrs downpour in the afternoons and it is all gone by morning, security is very good, and i have never felt anyway uneasy about rambling around the centre in the evenings or late at night, they have lots and lots of restuarants , cinema, bowling, skating on wax, etc
one disadvantage is that we are approx 6hrs from the nearest coastal resort which is ixtapa, Vera cruz is 8hrs, and puerta vallarta is 9hrs,

san miguel is a local town just 40minutes from here and that is very popular with american people retiring there, obviously for that reason, property tends to be dearer in San Miguel than Queretaro, even though queretaro has better infracture.

Guanajuato, is approx 1 hr from here, very pretty place, but would not have the same level of infracture as queretaro,

Moriela, is approx 2.5 hrs from here and has some nice green areas outside the main city, but personally i do not like the city at all, very big but not very pretty..

this is just a few bits off the top of my head, my suggestion is that you should visit and use Queretaro as a base to visit the other places you mentioned.

there are two daily flights with contenintal linking Hueston and Queretaro, the local airport is 25mins from the centre.

give me a call if you feel like it, and i can fill you in about places to stay while you are here and any other info you may want, i can also introduce you to some american friends i have here,

cel 0052 442 2810301 or if that doesnt work try, 0052 1 442 2810301 cause it depends if you ring from a land line or cel phone.

I wish you the best,

Regards
Tommy

[Traveler123]

Hi Tommy,

I wanted to contact you via a private message on this forum and learned that you are not able to receive PMs? Is this because you are new to the board? In any case, your post indicated you were open to further communications about Qto, and if you prefer not to receive a PM, then perhaps you could PM me with an email address? I appreciate your assistance.