Guadalajara and Lake Chapala

[Maritsa]

I found the following story:

An American businessman stood at the pier of a small coastal village in Mexico, when a small boat carrying a lone Mexican fisherman docked. Inside the boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them. The fisherman replied, "Only a little while." The American then asked, " If it took only a little while to catch these fine fish, why didn't you stay out longer and catch more fish?" The fisherman explained that this catch was enough to support his family's immediate needs.

The American then asked, "But what do you do with the rest of your time?"
The fisherman replied, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take a siesta with my wife, and stroll into the village each evening, where I sip wine, and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life, senor."
The American scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats. Eventually, you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing, and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then L.A., and eventually New York City, where you would run your expanding enterprise.

The fisherman asked, "But senor, how long would this all take?"
The American replied, "Fifteen to twenty years."

"But what then, senor?" inquired the Mexican. The American laughed and said, "That's the best part. When the time is right, you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions."

"Millions, senor? Then what?' asked the Mexican.

The American said, "Why, then you would retire, or course - move to a small coastal fishing village where you could sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take a siesta with your wife, and stroll into the village in the evenings, where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos."

[cookjmex]

Originally Posted by douglowell

I'm interested in retiring to Mexico, and curious about Guadalajara. I'm a city person in many ways, and I'm wondering what expat life in that city is like. Which neighborhoods should I look at if I'm trying to live reasonably (but not like a pauper). I'm not into gated communities at all.

Does Guadalajara live up to its "San Francisco of Mexico" reputation in city quality? Obviously I'll need an extended visit of my own, but I'd love to hear from residents about why they love it and what's to be aware of.

Thanks so much.

Doug

I live in Ajijic, and like a host of other expats I only visit Guadalajara when necessary. I have lived in the San Francisco Bay Area, Los Angeles, and the Washington DC area, and my big city days are done. Whether you would like living in Guad probably depends on how old you are, what activities interest you most and--most important--how fluent you are in Spanish. Like any other big city, there are good neighborhoods and bad, expensive and inexpensive, close in to El Centro (the old city) and further out. Chapalita is a neighborhood people often mention, and Zapopan (near the old town) is another. Generally, rents in Guad are lower than in the Lake Chapala area, but you can find relatively inexpensive places Lakeside if you look around and avoid trying to rent in the "high" season (Nov.-March) when the "snow birds" are down fleeing the winter in the US and Canada. We pay $550/month for a 2 BR, 2BA condo with access to a pool and gorgeous landscaping and great views.

Several others on this thread have talked about the glories of living away from other expats and supposedly in the "real" Mexican neighborhoods. I can assure you that there are "real" Mexicans that live right around the corner from me in Ajijic. I shop in their little tiendas (tiny neighborhood stores) and there are real Mexicans around me where ever I go. Even though many Mexicans here speak at least some English, you really need to have some Spanish or you are significantly handicapped in dealing with any but the English-speakers.

We have been studying Spanish every day for the 2 years we have lived here and have achieved what is called "survival Spanish". We can order meals, fill our tank with gas, get simple directions etc. We still find in depth conversations difficult, but Mexicans are very patient and forgiving of our mistakes, and are happy we care enough to learn their language. The ones in Lakeside also like to practice their English on you, which sometimes interferes with me practicing my Spanish on them. If you want to live in Guad, you had better start learning Spanish right away, because the expat community is a tiny proportion of the population and more dispersed and there are not nearly as many Mexicans there who speak English. Without some good Spanish skills, you will be handicapped in all your interactions and socially isolated. That may be fine for a short visit, but not to live there.

But, in the end, Guad is only about 1 hour away so if we want to take in a concert, or go shopping in the big US-style malls, or visit the wonderful old El Centro area, we can do it relatively easily. But traffic is intense, and Mexican drivers tend to relate to traffic laws as guidelines rather than strict rules. There are also the usual problems with big-city crime and other problems that we just don't experience to the same degree Lakeside.

If your attraction to big-city life is cultural, keep in mind that Ajijic has been a magnet for writers and artists for more than 80 years. There is a vibrant culture here with art shows, folk art fiestas, dance troupes, writer's groups etc. etc. Something is going on almost everyday, and unlike the big city, you can nearly always walk to it.

Once again, you need to think carefully about what you are really looking for, and about how you will deal with the language issues. A visit to the area for a couple of weeks would probably be a big help in coming to a decision.

[RVGRINGO]

Welcome to the forum, cookjmex, and I have to admit that I could not have said that any better. It was an excellent and comprehensive post.

[cookjmex]

Originally Posted by RVGRINGO

Welcome to the forum, cookjmex, and I have to admit that I could not have said that any better. It was and excellent and comprehensive post.

Thanks! Just discovered this forum today. Glad to see you are a moderator.

[emptyhandedtraveler]

Hi, Just wanted to ask about the weather around the Lake over the last few weeks? Do you have any hot days or are most days relatively mild--say mid 80's.

I have always gotten friendly and informative responses, so thanks ahead of time!

Martha from Florida

[RVGRINGO]

Just so that you won't continue to go around 'empty handed', here's the link to a local weather station maintained by a hobbyist on the north shore of Lake Chapala, between Chapala and Ajijic:

Lake Chapala Weather Net

This week has been cloudier than normal because of Jimina off of Baja California and our rainfall is below normal this year. As you can see, our temperatures are quite nice......as always.

[jimgkiss]

Originally Posted by stevebrtx

I'm not an authority on San Fran, but I'd say it's a world away from GDL in almost every way you could imagine. GDL is big and dirty; I can remember LA in the 60's and Denver in the 70's, both had more breathable air than GDL on a good day. The Mexican's have a tradition, if it can be set on fire it will be! And, the actual “burning season” is coming up when they burn the fields - that applies to all of MX. I personally could NOT live anywhere in GDL due to air quality.

Driving in GDL is a trip; visit my blog at oneblueflower(dot)com for a few adventures. I go there usually once a week to get gringo stuff like Home Depot, Autozone, Applebees, even DQ, Office Depot, Sams, WalMart, Costco and on and on. And, shopping for stuff in Tonala is an experience in all things Mexican.

Pedro is correct about “the village”, it’s charming to visit, DON’T live there. I’m in an area probably 3 miles east between Ajijic and Chapala, close enough to walk if you actually wanted or needed to, but far away from the church bells, when the breeze is right I hear the ones in the distance in San Antonio. Far from the cohetes they set off day night and weekend for any and every reason, they are aerial bombs that reverberate off the mountains. I know people in Ajijic that go to the coast for a week at the end of the year to escape the noise. Actually they’re building a new house next door to me.

Ajijic is overpriced driven by notoriety and “the Jones’s” which brought large sums of money down from NOB and foolishly overpaid to live in the village. Many or most things can be purchased for less anywhere but Ajijic. And most things are available somewhere if you know where like my mailbox is at the pool supply place – it works, I get mail at least twice a week.

The north shore probably has 5,000 gringo’s full or part time, some have lived here for a long time and don’t speak a word of Spanish and don’t understand why the native people don’t learn English.

If you want to live native it can be very cheap, if you live gringo, it’s definitely NOT. I bought a small can of VanCamp’s pork & beans the other day, $1.30. Electricity can be as much as $.295 per KWH depending on how much you use. Gas is cheap by NOB standards, about $2.52 a gal and varies little, unlike NOB.

And, any electrical appliance you dearly love needs to be on a voltage regulator, we get brownouts and spikes to 145 volts (which took out a favorite digital timer the other day) and due to frequency variance electric clocks run fast so you see a lot of batter powered clocks, I have 3 not that it actually matters what time it really is except MX follows the old DST rule so lately we’ve been two hours behind NYC (my TV) and so I have to start watching the 6pm news from Hoboken at 4 in the afternoon.

Is the area quintessential Mexico, yes and no. It depends on where and how you live. Each night I look across the lake at lights from small villages on the south shore, so Christmas day I drove over there – yep, typical small Mexican villages. The Mexican people are gracious and interesting, hard working and helpful and tolerant of some of our bad habits we forget to check at the border. You’ll find a few choice observations about some of our fellow countrymen and their plantation mentalities in my blog.

I often liken it to living in Nebraska in the 50’s and yet within the technology bubble inside my compound walls it’s very much the 21st century. Dish TV (it thinks it’s in NYC so I get Hoboken news?) XM Radio (couldn’t live without it) broadband Internet (which means I have VOIP) etc.

Much of this may sound terribly negative; in fact it’s not at all, it’s brutally honest, Mexico without the sugar coating and things to be considered when making a new place (country) you home. There are two kinds of people, the ones that love it and make it and the ones who hate it and are leaving or gone. I’m one that loves it and managed to renew my lease until June ’09. But, I’m under no illusions, there are two things I strap on each morning when the rooster crows (yes, they’re everywhere) tolerance and patience because those are the two most valuable assets to enjoying what is here, the art, the music, the weather, scenery, flowers year round and on and on including the fact it hasn’t rained since I arrived last Oct and won’t until June so it’s dusty and getting warm, was 90 yesterday, and dry, humidity dropped to 14% at one point, you'll find my weather station at chapalaweather(dot)net.

Good luck.

PS: I forgot to mention the occasional interruptions on the Internet, like now as I started to upload this answer and the net is down, so I went out and skimmed the jacaranda blossoms out of the pool, remember, patience and tolerance.

Hi Steve, thanks for your refreshingly honest views. Tried clicking on your website but it didn't work. Oneblueflower(dot)com didn't work either. Are either still active? Could you recommend a place for my wife and I to stay for a month or two this winter that's not in the Gringo Ghetto? Also, I heard there's a tennis club in Jocotepec; do you know if that's true and if so, how I could find out more info about it? I'm not really a "Racquet Club" kind of guy; I just play a lot and would be looking for some good games. Thanks for any info.

Jim G
Asheville, NC

[jimgkiss]

Where can I find "Streets of Glass"? Not at Amazon. tks, Jim

[RVGRINGO]

"STREETS OF GLASS", by Robert Glenn, is an entertaining true account of a
couple who decide to retire to a lake in Mexico, blessed with cool summers
and warm winters where it only rains at night and the sun shines every day.
There are bumps along the way, problems to solve over the years, a new
culture to experience and adjustments to be made. The author provides
insight and guidance for any reader who might aspire to join the thousands
of Americans, Canadians and others who have chosen to live out their
retirement years in the central highlands of Mexico. One critic says, " The
book is informative, humorous, thoughtful, well written and easy to read. It
captures one's interest and never loses steam." This e-book is available by
sending $15.00 (check or MO) AND e-mail address to: * Robert Glenn PMB 071117, 2163 Lima Lp., Laredo, TX 78045-6420

Double check all the digits in the address to insure that the mail gets forwarded to Mexico.

[RVGRINGO]

Jim,
You may find suitable rentals anywhere from Chapala to Jocotopec, a total distance of only about 17 miles along the north shore of Lake Chapala. There really isn't a 'Gringo Ghetto' but you will find more expats in Ajijic than in other towns and villages at Lake Chapala. If you wish to be near places to play tennis, there are public courts in Chapala's Parque Cristiania, possibilities in Ajijic and also the club's courts at the Racquet Club Subdivision at San Juan Cosala.