Guadalajara and Lake Chapala

[RVGRINGO]

Very true! No matter how long an expat lives in another country, in another culture, there will remain a wide gulf which cannot be crossed; only visited. You will have acquaintances and/or associates, but your close friends are not likely to be from another culture. You will be fortunate if you are invited to birthdays, weddings, 'quincañeros' or other 'fiestas' held by Mexican friends or neighbors; but you still won't be a part of their lives. Your close friends are more likely to be other expats and they will make up the bulk of your social life. Frankly, most expats are considered somewhat strange, cold and distant, loud and without good manners, even poorly dressed. That's just the way it is. That said, it is a great place to live and we are not only welcome, but tolerated and treated well. That doesn't happen everywhere.

[MexicoFran]

Before you take all the anti-Ajijic rhetoric to heart, look at the entire north side of Lake Chapala. Ajijic is still very Mexican. I rent a a very large gorgous old Mexican house in central Ajijic for $600 USD a month. There are roosters next door and across the street. I shop at the tienda on the corner, the papeleria and hairdresser down the block, park my car in the back yard of the liquor store two doors down. The block houses two other expats and the rest are about 40 Mexicans whose families bought land here decades ago. I can walk most everywhere in the village to do my shopping. I do not have to buy a can of beans for $1.30 USD. I read labels first and buy Mexican whenever I can. You can buy Tobasco sauce for $7.50 USD or Mexican salsa for 3.9 pesos, even at Super Lake. On the other hand, if you want to cook Thai food, or almost any other ethnic cuisine, you can get all the ingredients right here at Lakeside. After four years living in the same house in Ajijic, I doubt I will ever live anywhere else. I am not one of the moneyed snobs referred to by other. I live on a modest income, as do most of my friends. I iknow the people on my street and manage quite well.

[RVGRINGO]

Welcome to the forum, MexicoFran. I'm glad to see that you are as happy here as we are and I'm not even sure if we know each other or not. There are bound to be "nay sayers" everywhere, no matter how nice it is. Got to run; heading for the American Legion for breakfast with a group of friends.

[kebek]

Privado, well done and very true. I am French Canadian and we have the exact, same attitude as the Mexicans, in my family anyway (our Latin blood, I guess). Families are large usually five or six cousins on each side, aunts and uncles still very much young at heart and important in the circle. They meet often in weekends and every holiday. When we have friends, they are few and special and we see them on our own; they are not invited in our circle. Why would they? They don’t know anyone else but me, and they are outsiders to the family.

I am from a bilingual community but we rarely associate. I did because I am different from my relatives; having traveled a lot and moved away (met different people and kept contact). I am the black sheep of the family and have hardly any ties left with them. It’s understandable, I have changed. We have not much in common any more. Like you said, and it is the same at home, they have their own circle and they do not need me. I have become an outsider. Sad but true. I still go to some parties when I am there, but I feel as an observer.

May be because of my background, I do not understand foreigners here who feel as if they belong and you hear them say that they want to mix and be part of the Mexican culture—it will rarely happen unless the Mexican person has a more open view and is well traveled and out of his/her circle otherwise, why would they care? It does not mean that both sides cannot be civilized. Of course we enjoy saying hello and exchange a few words, but he contact will be at arm's length.

[RVGRINGO]

Bienvenue 'kebek' de Québec. Hope you enjoy the forum. Your post reminded me of exactly how it was when I was married into an ethnic Sicilian clan; I remained the outsider and my wife became the 'black sheep' too. Even regional differences will be felt, as I can attest, being from the Lake Champlain Valley and now married to a 'southern belle' and living in Mexico. Isn't life great? Vive la difference!

[Traveler123]

Originally Posted by MexicoFran

Before you take all the anti-Ajijic rhetoric to heart, look at the entire north side of Lake Chapala. Ajijic is still very Mexican. I rent a a very large gorgous old Mexican house in central Ajijic for $600 USD a month. There are roosters next door and across the street. I shop at the tienda on the corner, the papeleria and hairdresser down the block, park my car in the back yard of the liquor store two doors down. The block houses two other expats and the rest are about 40 Mexicans whose families bought land here decades ago. I can walk most everywhere in the village to do my shopping. I do not have to buy a can of beans for $1.30 USD. I read labels first and buy Mexican whenever I can. You can buy Tobasco sauce for $7.50 USD or Mexican salsa for 3.9 pesos, even at Super Lake. On the other hand, if you want to cook Thai food, or almost any other ethnic cuisine, you can get all the ingredients right here at Lakeside. After four years living in the same house in Ajijic, I doubt I will ever live anywhere else. I am not one of the moneyed snobs referred to by other. I live on a modest income, as do most of my friends. I iknow the people on my street and manage quite well.

I enjoyed reading your post, Fran. I am exploring various areas of Mexico for retirement and I, too, would not be trying to recreate a NoB lifestyle. Your rent seems to be about my budget also for rent, and I'm wondering if you can also share your approximate monthly expenses, not including travel to the US or around Mexico, which can vary widely. I'm thinking more of basic costs and fixed costs. Perhaps your monthly budget is around $1500-$1800/month? That's just a guess. Do you live alone or share expenses? It is unfortunately more expensive to live alone, as the fixed costs are not shared. In any case, any further info on cost of living would be helpful, as your lifestyle sounds like a good one, for me at least, as someone of modest means.

[Kaye]

I'd appreciate the same kind of information, being 'in the same boat' as traveler 123. I'm also wondering if there are more modest (1-2 bedroom) long-term rentals popping up in the Chapala area? However, I'll likely be in Vancouver until November and then hope to sublet and explore retirement in Mexico. Thanks!

[MexicoFran]

Originally Posted by Traveler123

I enjoyed reading your post, Fran. I am exploring various areas of Mexico for retirement and I, too, would not be trying to recreate a NoB lifestyle. Your rent seems to be about my budget also for rent, and I'm wondering if you can also share your approximate monthly expenses, not including travel to the US or around Mexico, which can vary widely. I'm thinking more of basic costs and fixed costs. Perhaps your monthly budget is around $1500-$1800/month? That's just a guess. Do you live alone or share expenses? It is unfortunately more expensive to live alone, as the fixed costs are not shared. In any case, any further info on cost of living would be helpful, as your lifestyle sounds like a good one, for me at least, as someone of modest means.

My husband and I try to live on our joint social security income of about $2200 USD plus $600 USD rent per month. This is not always possible as our medical expenses have been high this year. Typical monthly costs in pesos include electricity $1200, propane $400, gas and repair for car $2000, maid $2400, Spanish lessons $600, telephone including DSL $900, cable (for DSL backup) $440 manicure $300, computer repair $975 average (we own three computers,2 printers) medical expenses and drugs $2000 (partly covered by insurance), garage $300, eating out $1000, groceries $5000, household maintenance and repair $1000, gardener $100.

We hope the bulk of the medical expenses are over. We are cutting grocery bills by buying more Mexican and fewer imported foods. We eat out less than last year. We have discontinued several expensive drugs that caused more problems than they cured. I haven't added annual costs like car insurance, or maid's annual bonus, or non-recurrent costs. We don't feel we have quite enough money, but the stock market hit us hard last year, as it did many others. Hope this helps. Your circumstances will differ and hopeful
ly you can live on less than we can.

[RVGRINGO]

I know you can do with less; we live well on less than the amount above and we both live at Lake Chapala and probably shop just a bit differently. We use the local 'mercado' and Soriana supermarket, avoiding the imported goods store as much as possible. We own our home, so don't have rent but do have maintenance instead.

[RVGRINGO]

As interest grows for specific cities or areas, I'll 'stick' those topics and move the original posts to the new titles.