Moving to Mexico, 1st time there, need advice!

[RVGRINGO]

We've lived here eight years and are very happy. We have no intention of going anywhere else; especially gun toting Nevada!

[sparks]

Originally Posted by arturo_b

As we sow, so shall we reap. Therefore, let us sow well that we might also live well.

While much of your post is true Arturo ... moving to Mexico is a large cultural jump for many northerners. Even the Mexicans and maybe especially the Mexicans admit the relative lawlessness. Most of us can live with nothing more than a breakin and loosing a few things which is common. It is not like living a middle class life in the US with no bars on the windows and no walls around the house

[arturo_b]

Mi estimado señor Sparks, everything I write is true. It might not be true for you but it is certainly true for me otherwise I would not waste my time in writing it.

Bars on our windows and walls around our houses are not a Mexican phenomenon. If you think so, I would say you are racist. The bars and walls come from Europe. Visit the world and you will see the truth.

For what it's worth, I live in one of the oldest colonias in Tijuana and I do not have bars on my windows and the wall around the predio is maybe a 1.5 meters high. Our gate is not locked. I leave the windows open at night during the summer. And no one has stolen anything from us here!

So who wants to start with the pendejadas?

[RVGRINGO]

Perhaps some of our readers may not realize that the building style and culture of Mexico derives from beyond Spain to the Moors of North Africa, who occupied Spain until just before the Conquistadores arrived on the Mexican coast. As such, homes and other buildings are built on the outer perimiter of the lot, with courtyards and gardens in the interior. This comes from a time when security was provided by those outer walls and bars, while cool shade, quiet and privacy could be maintained inside; as well as cleanliness. The streets and countryside beyond the walls could be dirty and dangerous. So, the custom continues in Mexico with farmers living in town and leaving only a watchman to guard their fields or cattle. As Sparks mentioned, that may be one of the cultural details that new residents may find a bit different.
Another difference is in law enforcement. There are traffic police who have absolutely no interest in any other matters. They will not respond. Secuity police patrol the streets and may act only upon observing a crime in progress. If you have been robbed or burgled, it is too late to call the police. You must report the crime, with evidence and witnesses and a translator, to the Ministerio Publico, where it becomes a statistic and may possibly result in an investigation. All should know that the laws of Mexico differ greatly and are based on Napoleonic Law, not English Common Law. There are no juries and the accused is generally considered guilty and jailed until proven innocent. Courts are not yet 'open' and you may never actually see a judge. Oral arguments are rare; it is all paperwork done by lawyers and clerks behind closed doors.

[HolyMole]

Originally Posted by RVGRINGO

..................... All should know that the laws of Mexico differ greatly and are based on Napoleonic Law, not English Common Law. There are no juries and the accused is generally considered guilty and jailed until proven innocent. Courts are not yet 'open' and you may never actually see a judge. Oral arguments are rare; it is all paperwork done by lawyers and clerks behind closed doors.

When we were last in Mexico in early 2008 the newspapers were full of proposed major changes to the laws in Mexico that would have established the principle of "innocent until proven guilty."

Was it only talk? Did nothing come of it?

[golddust]

Originally Posted by RVGRINGO

We've lived here eight years and are very happy. We have no intention of going anywhere else; especially gun toting Nevada!

I'm glad that you're very happy there. Really I am. But please, don't insult Nevada. What you've written is offensive to me. Guns aren't unique to Nevada, or the USA. Just today there was an article in the news about a shooting in a Mexico City subway. The violence happening in border towns also frequently makes the news. Unfortunately, it's these articles that give outsiders a less than great impression of safety in Mexico. The same goes for the USA.
Just a small fraction of Nevadans (and Americans for that matter) are "gun toting", and I imagine the same is true for Mexicans. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Of all the people I've ever known growing up in Nevada, only 3 have guns at home for protection. They've never needed to use them. I've never known anyone who's had a gun pulled on them. EVER.

When we thought we might be moving to Queretaro (which didn't happen in the end because my husband didn't get the job offer), we wanted to find out what kind of place we were moving to since neither one of us has ever been to Mexico. Thanks for answering our question, but please, be respectful.

[RVGRINGO]

Hmmm. A bit touchy and probably didn't recognize the 'tongue in cheek' without posting a smiley icon. Oh well. For the record, we've been to Nevada and enjoyed it; although we still wouldn't want to live there for several reasons which aren't important to this discussion.
Personal weapons are legal in much of the USA but are illegal in Mexico. Still, there is a criminal element everywhere, as you have recognized.
Sorry to hear that you won't be moving to Queretaro; a very nice place and I'm sure you would have enjoyed the experience a great deal.

[RVGRINGO]

HolyMole,
Yes, there has been such 'talk' and there may even be some plans for a few experimental courts in selected areas. Before that can happen, lawyers and judges must be completely re-trained and the police procedures changed to some degree.
For all practical purposes, it is a 'wait and see' situation and most of us aren't young enough to be able to wait that long.

[arturo_b]

Originally Posted by sparks

moving to Mexico is a large cultural jump for many northerners. Even the Mexicans and maybe especially the Mexicans admit the relative lawlessness.

I was a bit grumpy the other day, had just come back from the San Ysidro Port of Entry where I witnessed a Mexican man politely offering his family's luggage to the Immigration official for inspection. Instead, the official shouted at the man "I told you to get out of here, you donkey!" Made me want to drop-kick his butt into the triple fence. And for days after I saw racists lurking behind every corner.

Yes, living in Mexico can be daunting to northerners. But that is not Mexico's problem.

The people who have the hardest time adjusting here are those who believe that the Mexican way is inferior to the U.S. way. I tell them "you cannot measure Mexico with a gringo yardstick, you will only get frustrated." They do not take me seriously. So they get frustrated. Then they get angry. And they are convinced it's Mexico's fault.

This "relative lawlessness" is a case in point. Where did that idea come from? What does it mean? Why is it repeated as though it were part of the Doxology? Our lawlessness is different, not relative. I can only speak for myself: I've been a fronterizo for about forty-five years now and I've witnessed much more appalling lawlessness in southern California than I have in Baja. Here on the border, those who are quickest to decry our lawlessness are the chicanos, not the real Mexicans, followed in suit by gringo mass media and the general gringo population. (No kidding, no one has more hateful things to say about Tijuana than a chicano in San Diego.) Our Mexican population would love to see an end to the drug violence but they are aware that we live in the equivalent of Al Capone's Chicago: only an end to the current Prohibition can return us to normalcy.

The Napoleonic Code is another chestnut I would like to retire. The federal Constitution prohibits unwarranted searches and seizures more forcefully than does the U.S. Constitution. The code of criminal procedure establishes habeas corpus and probable cause as fundamental rights of the accused. About four years ago I was acting as an interpreter for the Ministerio Público: I asked the assistant district attorney in charge of the case about the next procedural steps and she jumped to the conclusion that I was thinking "guilty until proven innocent". "You'd be surprised at how much the two legal systems are alike," she said diplomatically. "Actually, I'm surprised by the difference. Here they put a full-blown attorney in charge of the case, over there you get a police detective." She said quietly, "That's because the Ministerio Público is responsible to protect the rights of everyone involved, and for that you need someone who's been trained in the law."

Underneath its suave, devil-may-care anarchy, Mexico is surprisingly law-abiding. What you read in the papers is one thing -- and what the Rush Limburghers say is even worse -- but in the real world and in real time life here is very peaceable. As Ken Nordine used to say, "How are things in your town?"

[RVGRINGO]

Posters are cautioned to treat each other with respect, avoid even the hint of insult and to have a genuine interest in Mexico. Discussion is welcome but arguments aren't. A recent poster from Italy will no longer be with us; primarily for referring to another poster in an insulting manner and then continuint to 'stir the pot'.
As a result, this thread is now closed.