Are gringos destroying Mexico?

[joaquinx]

Originally Posted by edgeee

the $$ spent on the 'war on drugs' is almost as bad as the wars we've been busy losing in other parts of the world, but in this case, the bad results are right here at home, a constant reminder that we are getting it wrong.

I remember the fuss over Vietnam, a war fought by politicians who wanted to appear to be more anti-communist than the challenger from the other party and accusing everyone else of being "soft on communism."

our prison population is absurd, mainly because so many are incarcerated for victimless crimes.
the cost of keeping them under lock-and-key is staggering.
recidivation rates are ridiculous.
community outreach programs are a much better use of the money.

I don't remember the exact statistics, but over 50% of those incarcerated are there for drug related crimes, i.e. selling or using. There are way too many politicians hoping to satify the overly rightous by being "tough on crime."

[FHBOY]

Originally Posted by TundraGreen

Agreed. Ending prohibition, excuse me, legalizing drugs, won't end the problems overnight. Just as the mafia in the US turned to other crimes after prohibition ended in the 1930s, so the drug cartels will continue with other crimes. They are too big and well organized to just go away. But as StillTraveling notes, it will take away a huge source of revenue for them. In addition, the legal sale of drugs will be subject to taxes and quality control.

Interesting historical side note: During the alcohol prohibition, there was a healthy trade in smuggling alcohol into the US from Canada.

I worked in the Newark area of New Jersey in the early 80's. I worked with people who were liquor importers, all nice a legitimate, genteel folks to have dinner with. These same folks, and in some cases, their parents were the Jersey bootleggers until the repeal of prohibition. Yep, what a difference an amendment makes.

[conklinwh]

Originally Posted by stilltraveling

It doesn't matter what they turn to. They won't have drug trafficking as an option because it will be done by legitimate companies. The important point is that they will no longer have the resources to outgun law enforcement or buy them off.

What did all the moonshine runners turn to when alcohol prohibition ended in the US?

For that matter, when was the last time you saw beer distributors shooting it out over territory?

I think that a better analogy would be the families after prohibition-answer: loan sharking, extortion, prostitution, muggings, kidnapping...

I'm all for the legalization but it isn't a panacea to crime in Mexico and there will need be a very aggressive push combining alternate lifestyles as well as enforcement.

[stilltraveling]

Originally Posted by edgeee

organized crime will always find a market - or create one.

I'm afraid I don't see the logic here. What market will they create? Breakfast cereal? Drugs were the market they created when alcohol prohibition ended. Name another product that costs $8 per kilo to manufacture and sells for $50K on the street.

organized crime will always find a way to survive and thrive.

Sure they will, but they won't have the $100 billion annual injection they currently get from drugs.

in Las Vegas, the mob doesn't own many casinos anymore.
but they do have a hand in many other endeavors.

Sure, they sell drugs.

however, it sounds like you are discounting the involvement of the police and other authorities in this future.
i am assuming they will still be as honest/crooked as they have ever been.

And who's going to pay them to stay crooked? You're completely ignoring the fact that prohibition is what gives organized crime the resources to buy off police in the first place. In addition, the reason they do it is because police are paid to track them down and therefore need to be bought.

if so, the problem doesn't go away, it just shows a different face.
there is still another demon waiting on the horizon. no one knows for sure what it will be.

Whatever it is, maybe next time we won't outlaw it and turn it into a profitable business.

they want money and power, and nothing will stop them from going after it.

Everyone wants money and power. That doesn't change the fact that it is the HUGE profit margins of drug trafficking that gives it to them.

just letting my imagination run wild, if they looked for the highest return on investment, sex slaves would be the kind of thing they would like.

They already do that. Moving a 50 kg girl will never be as profitable as moving 50 kg of cocaine nor is it as easy. We're talking about a different problem here anyway.

[stilltraveling]

Originally Posted by TundraGreen

Interesting historical side note: During the alcohol prohibition, there was a healthy trade in smuggling alcohol into the US from Canada.

It made the Kennedy's rich . . . and then they turned to another business to accumulate wealth and power.

[stilltraveling]

Originally Posted by joaquinx

I don't remember the exact statistics, but over 50% of those incarcerated are there for drug related crimes, i.e. selling or using. There are way too many politicians hoping to satify the overly rightous by being "tough on crime."

And lining their pockets with donations from the for-profit prison industry.

[stilltraveling]

Originally Posted by conklinwh

I think that a better analogy would be the families after prohibition-answer: loan sharking, extortion, prostitution, muggings, kidnapping...

I'm all for the legalization but it isn't a panacea to crime in Mexico and there will need be a very aggressive push combining alternate lifestyles as well as enforcement.

They already do all those things. The difference is they do it in an environment where police are spending all their resources looking for drugs.

I never said it was a panacea. However, there is no disputing that it is the single largest cause of homicides in Mexico. This problem is responsible for over 15k deaths per year in Mexico and could be solved by simply passing a law. When you have the ability to save 15k lives per year through legislation, it really should be at the top of the agenda.

[edgeee]

i don't want to get too carried away here, since i am in the witness protection program.
(just kidding.)
but it seems like i am in the middle of a bunch of non-believers. . .
i don't really want to burst your bubble, but it's the only way i know to get you out of it.

organized crime is something most people don't begin to understand.
especially people who are 'sheltered' by good jobs and personal safety.
everyone thinks it doesn't apply to them.
it does and it will.
insulation from it is what makes you think it's not important.
once it hits home, you will become a convert.
why does it make more sense to be ignorant until you become a victim?

maybe because they haven't died yet, nor has anyone they know.
eventually, that will change.
you don't have to wait for someone you love to die before you become aware.
but if you wait long enough, it will happen.
when it does, will you wonder if you should have done something sooner?

Are gringos destroying Mexico?
yes and no.
we sorta invented greed to the nth power, but there is no copyright on ideas.

Mexican people will find their own way to deal with this threat, as they always have.
they may rise up and kill the interlopers and be done with it.
(i doubt it, but i root for it.)
or they will do what they have always done.

(pardon me while i indulge a weaknesss.)
in the Magnificent Seven, Calvera says...
"If God didn't want them sheared, he would not have made them sheep."
which works very well within the context of the movie,
but i suspect it applies to life in general.

the Mexico i know is all mystery and legend, since i have not been there.
but i'm pretty sure the America i know is a herd i don't want to be part of.

[Tikistar]

Destroying Mexico? No more than the illegals here in the US. US brings so much good to Mexico. Good example is the caring US and Canadian citizens working to help homeless dogs, and treatment of animals. God bless'em!!!

Check out the good being done in Puerto Vallarta by the super expats!

[mickisue1]

Originally Posted by Tikistar

Destroying Mexico? No more than the illegals here in the US. US brings so much good to Mexico. Good example is the caring US and Canadian citizens working to help homeless dogs, and treatment of animals. God bless'em!!!

Check out the good being done in Puerto Vallarta by the super expats!

With all due respect, the money being spent on the homeless animals might better be spent on books and healthy food for kids in schools in the poorest parts of MX.

Poorly educated, ill-fed people tend not to consider animal welfare a high priority.

Bringing more Mexicans into the middle class will do more than any group of expats who are running animal shelters can, for the welfare of humans AND animals.