Mexico Security Update

[pappabee]

Originally Posted by polynomial

As far as I know, the poster didn't break any of the forum rules, so the post is perfectly valid.

I mean, one could argue that the information is not necessary, but there is so many threads here that are not necessary either, so where do you draw the line.

Forum rules are objective, opinions on the usefulness of a thread are not.

I really don't think that anyone is saying that the information or any of the comments are breaking forum rules. What I'm saying is that I feel that we have covered the "crime" beat here in Mexico so completely that any re-statement or re-listing is, as was said, beating a dead horse.

Now new information or new insights would be wonderful. And as far as censorship goes I have only seen one post that has been deleted in the past few months and that one was clearly against the rules.

By definition opinions can never be objective so that they always must be subject to the likes/dislikes of the person writing them. So, IMHO, I am tired of hearing about crime. If I really wanted to follow the "crime beat" I could get a copy of the morning reports from the major cities in the states and read about it for the next 10 hours. But to me enough is enough. Let's focus on the beauty of the country and the wonderful things that go on around here. The great people, the great food, the great fun. Enough crime, unless something brand new comes up.

[conorkilleen]

Originally Posted by ExpatPumpkin

Totally agree. I was very bothered by the censorship on this board when I lived in Mexico and frequented discussions here. I actually had a first-hand account (my own) of the deteriorating safety situation in Monterrey (where I lived at the time) erased from the board because it was deemed inappropriate subject matter.

Exactly. If anyone want to know about how safe or unsafe it is here in Monterrey just PM me. I live here. It's hard to deny facts, but when someone presents an opinion based on facts, they get the crud beat out of them.

I dislike a few people that post on this board because all they do is beat people down about what someone else posts. It's like you need to add a disclaimer to every post so people know that it's your opinion or you are stating fact. Whatever. To each their own. I'm not some old codger living in a bubble (bubble pat) neither am I some rich expat vice pres of a company living high on the hog but worrying if myself or my family will be kidnapped for ransom.

This forum is full of good information if you can weed through the bullsh!t.

[polynomial]

Originally Posted by pappabee

I really don't think that anyone is saying that the information or any of the comments are breaking forum rules. What I'm saying is that I feel that we have covered the "crime" beat here in Mexico so completely that any re-statement or re-listing is, as was said, beating a dead horse.

Now new information or new insights would be wonderful. And as far as censorship goes I have only seen one post that has been deleted in the past few months and that one was clearly against the rules.

By definition opinions can never be objective so that they always must be subject to the likes/dislikes of the person writing them. So, IMHO, I am tired of hearing about crime. If I really wanted to follow the "crime beat" I could get a copy of the morning reports from the major cities in the states and read about it for the next 10 hours. But to me enough is enough. Let's focus on the beauty of the country and the wonderful things that go on around here. The great people, the great food, the great fun. Enough crime, unless something brand new comes up.

It's not like you were tricked into reading the information either though.

I mean, if you really didn't want to read more about crime, then you didn't have to click this thread either, so I really don't see what the big deal is.

If anything, people complaining about the thread is what ruined it, not the OP. You just have to accept you can't control what other people post.

[conorkilleen]

Originally Posted by polynomial

It's not like you were tricked into reading the information either though.

I mean, if you really didn't want to read more about crime, then you didn't have to click this thread either, so I really don't see what the big deal is.

If anything, people complaining about the thread is what ruined it, not the OP. You just have to accept you can't control what other people post.

I wish I could like this 100 times.

[pappabee]

From ABC News:


Travel Warning for Mexico: Possible Violent 'Retaliation' Against Americans - Yahoo! News

[conorkilleen]

Originally Posted by pappabee

From ABC News:


Travel Warning for Mexico: Possible Violent 'Retaliation' Against Americans - Yahoo! News

Opinion-
The only time Americans should be worried about being singled out and targeted is if and when the US Military is ever let inside Mexico to take out the cartels. This will never happen in my lifetime hopefully.

So all I have to say to that warning is....meh. Watching your back and having a heightened sense is daily life where I live. In a previous life that same warning was just standard protocol.

[FHBOY]

We should be willing to see a valid point in Longfords post. It is true that veterans here have read stuff like the OP posted over and over again and, as I, get a little tired of it when it appears to make no point any longer. But, saying that, there are new people who come here (hopefully) and may not have been an ongoing part of any discussion and for them it is new and informative. I do not believe any old timers are imposing their will on the content but equally so, everyone has the right, within the Rules to say what they want and let the chips fall where they may. Contrary wise, newcomers need to be as aware of the POV of veterans as the veterans are of theirs.

If a new, for example, crime thread shows up, we can choose to ignore it if we've read it over and over. But, if we know that something within the post is factually incorrect, isn't it incumbent upon us to provide a well structured argument about it if we so choose?

Now, I do think that the subject of crime has been beaten to death, but after the OP gave an explanation of why, I can see it - the OP was providing information and not stating an opinion about it, like Walter Cronkite used to do.

But, I reject the charge that the members of this Forum are censoring, as one poster put it, discussions. There have been no calls to take down discussions unless they have become abusive in tone or language. Free speech and free discussion means that at some point you are not going to agree with someone else's POV, and I have yet to see, on this Forum, anyone tell anyone else that they are not entitled to their POV - even if it is not agreed with. They do reserve the right of rebuttal, but then we are into what was discussed on another thread, what this Forum is all about.

In conclusion what may be old news and info for some is new news for others. If you do want to get involved or even read it, then as been suggested fuggedaboutit - and move on. This also can be applied to "newbies". This Forum is a very intelligent place (I am not kidding) where posts are well thought out and erudite, where people respect one another. It may not be the place for some, those who are used to one and two sentence confrontational postings and fight and flight. To remain a long time poster here takes a lot of thought, and it is not for everyone.

[mickisue1]

My only concern with the OP was that it was not readable, for a casual forum.

Long lists of occurrences may be easily scanned, if you are used to looking at them; your eye naturally ignores what is not currently of interest, and homes in on what is.

But for someone who sees that report for the first time, it's eye-glazingly tedious.

That may be part of what others were objecting to.

In the end, though, as has been said, it's up to the individual whether or not to click on or read any given post.

[FHBOY]

Originally Posted by mickisue1

My only concern with the OP was that it was not readable, for a casual forum.

Long lists of occurrences may be easily scanned, if you are used to looking at them; your eye naturally ignores what is not currently of interest, and homes in on what is.

But for someone who sees that report for the first time, it's eye-glazingly tedious.

That may be part of what others were objecting to.

In the end, though, as has been said, it's up to the individual whether or not to click on or read any given post.

How can English teachers be so right and so picky...picky...picky at the same time? so, what would you grade the OP post?

[tepetapan]

Originally Posted by FHBOY

We should be willing to see a valid point in Longfords post. It is true that veterans here have read stuff like the OP posted over and over again and, as I, get a little tired of it when it appears to make no point any longer. But, saying that, there are new people who come here (hopefully) and may not have been an ongoing part of any discussion and for them it is new and informative.

Now, I do think that the subject of crime has been beaten to death, but after the OP gave an explanation of why, I can see it - the OP was providing information and not stating an opinion about it
But, I reject the charge that the members of this Forum are censoring, as one poster put it, discussions. There have been no calls to take down discussions unless they have become abusive in tone or language. Free speech and free discussion means that at some point you are not going to agree with someone else's POV, and I have yet to see, on this Forum, anyone tell anyone else that they are not entitled to their POV - even if it is not agreed with. They do reserve the right of rebuttal, but then we are into what was discussed on another thread, what this Forum is all about.

In conclusion what may be old news and info for some is new news for others. If you do want to get involved or even read it, then as been suggested fuggedaboutit - and move on. This also can be applied to "newbies". This Forum is a very intelligent place (I am not kidding) where posts are well thought out and erudite, where people respect one another. It may not be the place for some, those who are used to one and two sentence confrontational postings and fight and flight. To remain a long time poster here takes a lot of thought, and it is not for everyone.

I feel the whole thing (security issue) is like beating a dead horse. You can name every crime committed here in Mexico but trying to compare it to face eating zombies, murder / suicide of parents and infants, mass murder of students at school and the run of the mill mall shooting, it is called comparing apples to oranges. Is it really?
The media is biased. How about the Arizona sheriff who claimed (in the last week) the burned out Ford Explorer, found in Arizona with 5 people, was a cartel hit? This was found to be a murder / suicide of husband and family members but the media ran with the cartel thing because it sells. And that is the whole problem. There are business, not just the usual government agencies, who are making huge money on the deaths of the people of Mexico. Insurance companies, security companies, vendors, trucking companies, newspapers, pay per click internet blog rags just to name a few. It is big business and huge money.

There is one poster on a couple other forums that has for the past years posted warnings of travel in certain areas, too dangerous to travel, they claim. Quite a good writer infact (unlike myself) who sells the fear and violence well. But wait, if you do a bit of reading in the past you will find that this person sells risk insurance to cross border trucking companies. So the more fear spread and violence implied means bigger premiums and a bigger pay check. What makes Stafor any different?
How about, since the OP already has paid for the "inside information" post what is happening in the USA and a posting of what is happening in Canada. Give us all a weeks worth of dirt on each and pacify my soul. Why doesn´t Stafor inform the subscriber about the Quebec protests , the Occupy Movement or even the list of
United States private paramilitary groups?
..and FMBOY, the post was not useful in my mind. In my mind it was a complete waste of electrons to even post such things since, without paying anyone, I can find it all on my own on the internet. Being fed this type information is nothing more being fed propaganda.