Question about racial attitudes in Mexico

[009]

most Mexicans automatically think whites are wealthier, more attractive, more educated etc

[009]

Originally Posted by mickisue1

AWESOME! My pasty white skin, freckles and red hair will finally be an asset!

gingers arent included, sorry lol

[surfrider]

Originally Posted by RPBHaas

I have seen racism in person during my 5 years living in Mexico. It has haapened to me on several occasions. I have been "learning" the Mexican culture for 14 years, first by employing over 100 Mexican nationals in the US (I helped them to obtain H2B work visas) and then by traveling and living in Mexico. GENERALLY speaking I have been exposed to more racial baises through the 14 years with this group than the people I grew up with in Dallas Texas. While visiting Mexico a couple of years ago, my girlfriend at the time, black American, and I received such biases. I alone have had a few Mexican men tell me how they hate gringos. When I respond to them in Spanish, I virtually do not have an accent, they seem to think I am a countryman of theirs and the situations were defused.
These examples are not common occurances, but I never experienced racism pointed towards me ever in my life until living in Mexico and they bewilder me. I do not believe the color of your skin makes you any different than anyone else. Societal differences (biases learned through racism), ignorance, hatred and a lack of education affect people in the ugliest ways.

I agree with your thoughts completely. Personally I am unable to see disabilities or color in regards to a human being. But having worked with disabled people for over 40 years and housing six adult disabled in my home along with giving birth to a handicapped child has taught me a lot. All but one of my children are adopted and when we are all gathered together we look like the united nations.

I have seen so much discrimination that it makes me extremely sad. I feel sad about the lack of self-value and self-esteem that most people have. Good people, Christian, Doctors, Educated people, it does not matter. If they lack knowledge of their own personal worth and value then they fear something that is different from them. If they could only see the beauty in the difference - but then they would have to see the beauty of themselves to see it in others. As history has taught us, many nations have tried to erratic whole races from their mist. It has been done in the name of God, in the name of war - so many different reasons to take one's hate for their own self and transfer it to another. So very sad. - just my personal thoughts.

[edgeee]

Originally Posted by surfrider

I agree with your thoughts completely. Personally I am unable to see disabilities or color in regards to a human being. But having worked with disabled people for over 40 years and housing six adult disabled in my home along with giving birth to a handicapped child has taught me a lot. All but one of my children are adopted and when we are all gathered together we look like the united nations.

I have seen so much discrimination that it makes me extremely sad. I feel sad about the lack of self-value and self-esteem that most people have. Good people, Christian, Doctors, Educated people, it does not matter. If they lack knowledge of their own personal worth and value then they fear something that is different from them. If they could only see the beauty in the difference - but then they would have to see the beauty of themselves to see it in others. As history has taught us, many nations have tried to erratic whole races from their mist. It has been done in the name of God, in the name of war - so many different reasons to take one's hate for their own self and transfer it to another. So very sad. - just my personal thoughts.

and very personal they are. thank you. they are also quite wise words.
as a writer, i know that referring to feeelings as thoughts - and passing that on to another - is not easy.
it loses something in the translation.
yet we have to, and you did it well.

A quick story about bias, judgement, perspective and timing:
my father was born in a place and time that guaranteed he be racist, or he would have been ostracized.
born in 1930, he was blessed/cursed with three brothers and six sisters.
he barely knew his father, a victim of gas in WW I.
grandpa came home very ill, and endured just long enough to procreate a wee bit more.
(that's ballsy genes there.)

you need to know that the job of patriarch fell to dad when he was young.
his two older brothers went to WW II, while he filled in for them.
left to run a family of mother, six sisters and a younger brother, he had to mature early.
six sisters, all older than he needed to find husbands. and they all needed to eat.
i'm just saying, a better man never walked earth, yet he had a dark side too.

he also never met a blak man until after he had been brainwashed.
i have no clue how that effected him at the time, so i'll skip to when i was young.

where and when i was growing up was not much different than his own experience.
i heard lots of "N" jokes as a kid. we were so far back in the woods,
i never heard a jewish comment of any kind, much less a joke about them.

back then, i still had a hard time keeping my thoughts to myself (back then?).
when i wondered why hating any certain group of people, damning one and all, seemed crazy,
i was suddenly a minority. i have been ever since, but i won't go there now.

TV had boomed, and the outside world was invading my own world that time forgot.
LSS, i argued with my dad about civil rights and such.
being naive left me blissfully ignorant what a big battle that would be.
i kept trying to make sense of it all, and i like to think now that i made him begin to think about it.
at heart, he was all about hard work, fair play, justice and honesty. racism didn't fit him.

meanwhile, i got old enough to go in the army and go to war and learn to hate an entire race of people.
even worse, my own bias was not limited to the people of Vietnam, as in, "they all look the same to me".
any asian presence gets some of my nerves excited, even today. crazy i know, but to ignore it would be crazier.
so i try to deal with it.

it is a situation i deplore, but i have little control of it.
it tends to spread if i let it. i am a devotee of Don Rickles.
i am EOB, equal opportunity biased, i hate all people equally. at least i try to.
yet i loath the word 'hate' and try to not use it.

i firmly believe that every human has the right to be treated humanely.
i even preach the value and necessity of love in anyone's life.
so my dilemma is easy to see, but not so easy to fix.

so many factors go into explaining why i am a xenophope, i can't do it,
but i can see that there is a lot of it around.

imo much of it springs from fear, specifically fear of the unkown.
any group of people will feel stronger and safer if they are united.
a common enemy makes it easier to unite.

but that doesn't seem to help me much, since my own curiosity knows no bounds and the unkown is just the next adventure.
my own dichotomy is complex, but i have learned that the people i have to deal with may have a similar quandry.
or so it seems. we'll see. all i need is a pair of 4-D glasses.

in the interst of leaving no loose ends, eventually, my second wife hapened to be a black girl from Brooklyn.
my dad loves her like his own daughter. well, better actually, but thats TMI.

there are many things that promote anger, and anger will grow into hate.
some people just have more hate in them than others.
it's hard to love them, but they are the ones who need love the most.
and doing so, can sometimes turn that hate around, but it doesn't always work that way.

with all the physcological, physical and philosophical differences we have,
and the infinity of conflicting feelings and opinions we share, it's a wonder we even talk to each other.
what ever you do, never stop talking, except when it's smarter to listen.

Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds,
while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
Charles Mackay

[surfrider]

Each person creates their own reality based upon their own needs and each generation has different sociological demands upon the people born to that generation. However, throughout the time of man on earth, there seems to have always been a voice in every generation and in every nation that taught the words; "love one another". Of course with the laws that seem to govern earth, there is always an opposite for every element.
You as a writer know that words vs. feelings and emotions often have different levels of meaning for people.
So many times I have heard people say that handicapped people are always so happy and sweet to be around. So very NOT true.
Handicapped people can and do hate and often discriminate against other disabled people. They are no different from the rest of mankind. We are all capable of hate, most of us are capable of killing another person and very few of us - if any - are capable of loving every man.
So the answer to whether or not there is racial attitudes in Mexico is - Yes - as well as in every nation on earth. You will not, I am sorry to say, find any generation, any society, any nation that there will not be racial attitudes, discrimination and hate. Having said that one has to look and remember that there is always an opposite. You will also find loving and kind people who will give from their hearts care and understanding. It is up to each player on earth to find people who nurture and teach them to become as full and complete as they can become.

[stilltraveling]

Originally Posted by 009

gingers arent included, sorry lol

Bite your tongue. Gingers are Even more beautiful because they're so rare.

[stilltraveling]

Originally Posted by surfrider

However, throughout the time of man on earth, there seems to have always been a voice in every generation and in every nation that taught the words; "love one another"..

And almost invariably, we kill them.

[surfrider]

So very true and so very sad. If we do not kill them then we just take every detail of their existence away and change them into something else.
People should understand that if "they" did it to "them" then "they" can do it to YOU.

[pstpier]

True. Some expats think finding an established, gated development is safer. I tend to agree with them. There are a number of developments that come to mind that don't even sacrifice native Mexican feel for security.

Originally Posted by 009

most Mexicans automatically think whites are wealthier, more attractive, more educated etc

[Hound Dog]

We know three black women pretty well, two American one in her 40´s and one in her late 60´s and one African.
The older woman who lives in Chapala told me that she felt less racism here than in the US. She dated a Mexican man for a while , the other two younger women we know live in Chiapas where they are a novelty and get stared at a lot especially the African women, both are very attractive with nice personalities and are very popular.

One problem all 3 had complaints about was hairdressers not knowing how to take ccare of their hair and their search for special hair products. The woman from Chapala found some in Guadalajara but the ones in Chiapas could not find what they wanted.