ICON - Puerto Vallarta

[FHBOY]

Originally Posted by Souper

FHboy, I also appreciate your apology, your acknowledgement of your misstatements says a great deal about your character... with this we enjoy others peoples choices, whether or not we want it for ourselves.

You bring up a point that in the two years we have been considering our emigration to Mexico has sort of nagged at me, what is "living Mexican"? Some have said that our move to Ajijic is not "living Mexican" because it is described as a gringo ghetto [not my words!]. Well, I reject that.

Some will say, as I did unfairly, that living in ICON or BVG or such in PV is not "living Mexican".

It comes down to this: Who am I (or anyone) for that matter to be the ultimate authority on what you feel is "living Mexican"? I have no right to define it for you because I am not you and not in charge of your feelings or choices. I forgot a basic tenet of my life: My rights end where your nose begins. And that includes my right to judge your lifestyle. I can disagree with it and not make the same choice as you, but I have no right to say it is not correct or even just correct for you.

You see, in the end it all comes down to the individual and what they want out of their "living Mexican" experience. There is a part of me that would like the life depicted in the ICON website, or what we experienced at BVG when we stayed there, it is luxurious and very NOB (I mean BVG - since I have been there) and we enjoyed it, very much. But how soon would we tire of moving what we see as our NOB lifestyle to another city? Where would the adventure be in that? Why go all the way to another country, another culture to do it? Isn't that what (God forbid) Miami is for? (substitute any USA city - in this homogenized country, they are basically all the same.)

Our feeling was that to make such a life change move, the reasons had to be for adventure (amongst others), but not too much. Ajijic is enough of an adventure for now, new type pf housing, new language, new day-to-day culture, new way to live, but with the comfort of the familiar.

In reality by living in 5 de Diceimbre, NEWPVGUY has had a more "living Mexican" experience than probably we will have, we don't have any burros or horses on the street where our home in Mexico is. You get what I mean.

[kcowan]

The are varying types of living Mexican, and a gringo enclave protects your from the experience of living Mexican daily. Nothing wrong with that. Just recognize that many aspects of life in Mexico are not being experienced. In PV, we have all types of the experience. We are in an all-Mexican condo with 6 owners. But our interaction with the other owners has dropped since a Mexican couple has split up. The wife has moved to Chapala with the daughter to be with her folks. The other owners are working and have never been approachable. They are pleasant but not friends.

We have squatters that live next door and have been invited to their birthday parties. We have been to our maid's wedding. Service at Santa Cruz church and then a reception in Pitalllal.

[Mexicodrifter]

I am with FHBOY on this one. Don´t tell me wht my experience is. I have lived in a number of different towns and cities in Mexico and each one has been a different way of life. From Big city to small pueblo is as different as night and day and yet very much the same.

Why would anyone want to tread on anothers experience of life. Leave mine alone, please.

[FHBOY]

Originally Posted by kcowan

The are varying types of living Mexican,.. Service at Santa Cruz church and then a reception in Pitalllal.

And again, and this is where I went wrong, what I or anyone else wants to experience is his/her own choice. If I do not want the Living Mexican experience of eating at a roadside stand, then that is my choice. Someone can say, "well, that is not the truly Living Mexican, real Mexicans eat at roadside stands" and they'd be right from their POV - for themselves, but no for me. Others could say, "If you only shop at Wal-Mart, Home Depot, etc etc in Mexico, then you are not having a true Living Mexican shopping experience." Again, true from their POV, but that is my choice.

All of the experiences we choose in life are by and large by our own free will. My Living Mexican experience will be the life of Ajijic. It is mine. Yours is living at an ICON like development, that is your Living Mexican experience.

What is important is that we have a place, like here, to share our different Living Mexican experiences that may open up a new window into a possibility we may not have thought about [which is how we decided to move to Ajijic - but that's a longer story.] -

It also teaches about sponge mops

[RVGRINGO]

.....and maybe even our favorite taco stand on the Chapala plaza.

[kcowan]

One thing that people overlook is that Ikon type towers are 30% Mexican.

[FHBOY]

Originally Posted by RVGRINGO

.....and maybe even our favorite taco stand on the Chapala plaza.

RV: if it is a recommendation from you then make sure we get together there in August, deal? You weren't wrong about Delicia.

[Souper]

Originally Posted by FHBOY

You bring up a point that in the two years we have been considering our emigration to Mexico has sort of nagged at me, what is "living Mexican"? Some have said that our move to Ajijic is not "living Mexican" because it is described as a gringo ghetto [not my words!]. Well, I reject that.

I turn around the question to what is "living American".

Do Americans all live the same, like the same things? Certainly not. But does anyone think they are not acting American.

Look at all the foreign immigrants to the USA who want some of their old home. I welcome all the interesting restaurants they give others.

If one embraces much of their new home, who can expect anyone to love everything about any one place or lifestyle.

[FHBOY]

Originally Posted by Souper

I turn around the question to what is "living American"...who can expect anyone to love everything about any one place or lifestyle.

That is a great analogy, who amongst us have the same "Living USA (Canada)" experience. We have all delved into out native culture as far as we want, as far as we are comfortable with. Some live in suburbs, others are center city dwellers, same even still live on farms, or in motor home enclaves - yet no one here would say that these are not "Living USA (Canada)", and thank goodness for that, what a bore it would be is "Living _______" was all the same.

But, using the same logic and the recent immigrant backlash in the USA, doesn't "Living Mexican" include learning the language, much as some scream that "foreigners" in the USA must learn and use English and do not? It is hard to imagine that type of mentality in Mexico towards those who can't speak Spanish. Yet I suppose that is the cost of the "gringo tax" I hear about, which should serve as somewhat of an incentive to learn the language, if only for a possible minor economic leg up. [I've left out the courtesy issue, the respect of others issue concerning this - yet it is of equal importance.]

You see, this "living ______" opens up not a window into Mexico, but a mirror of ourselves, collectively, which is a new topic, I suppose.

Sorry about the lecture, but it is Thursday morning and I really ( ) have not much on my agenda.

[joelpb]

Originally Posted by FHBOY

That is a great analogy, who amongst us have the same "Living USA (Canada)" experience. We have all delved into out native culture as far as we want, as far as we are comfortable with. Some live in suburbs, others are center city dwellers, same even still live on farms, or in motor home enclaves - yet no one here would say that these are not "Living USA (Canada)", and thank goodness for that, what a bore it would be is "Living _______" was all the same.

But, using the same logic and the recent immigrant backlash in the USA, doesn't "Living Mexican" include learning the language, much as some scream that "foreigners" in the USA must learn and use English and do not? It is hard to imagine that type of mentality in Mexico towards those who can't speak Spanish. Yet I suppose that is the cost of the "gringo tax" I hear about, which should serve as somewhat of an incentive to learn the language, if only for a possible minor economic leg up. [I've left out the courtesy issue, the respect of others issue concerning this - yet it is of equal importance.]

You see, this "living ______" opens up not a window into Mexico, but a mirror of ourselves, collectively, which is a new topic, I suppose.

Sorry about the lecture, but it is Thursday morning and I really ( ) have not much on my agenda.

I do not think it is a back lash per say. People do not like illegales. You are a crook
right off. Most people do not like these people getting a free pass to live in the USA.

I have to do a lot and pay a lot of money to get my wife where she can live in the
USA. I think it is a crime the way they treat the legal people. If a baby is born from
a illegal person in the USA they become a citizen. What kind of law is that. They
sneak across the border and go to a hospital and get free medical and the baby
becomes a citizen. But they make it so hard on people that do it the right way.

Mexicans that are legal are not looked on as bad just the illegals and they make
it bad for the good ones.

No illegal should ever be given a USA citizen ship. No amastay. I believe they
should be able to work but never allowed to vote.