Bodies found near Lake Chapala

[Detailman]

Originally Posted by tepetapan

" Right or wrong, others can benefit from exagerated fears." And how is that?
Exagerated fears are fears that....what?
How about a woman and her 3 daughters are kidnapped, 50% are dead. What about that as compared to a score of gangbangers dead?

That is a general comment that should not be taken out of context.

Exaggerated fears can take many forms and can have a solid basis for them or very little basis at all.

Let's say the state is building a high voltage power line through a residential neighbourhood. People start to circulate stories about how everyone is going to get cancer from the new transmission lines (or whatever). Might there be a basis for this fear? Yes! Can it be over-exaggerated? Yes! If dozens of people immediately put their houses up for panic sales it is obvious that the house prices are going to drop drastically. People who can live with the fear of the consequences of the high transmission line might benefit by being able to buy a house for less than true market value due to the exaggerated fears that have spread through the local residents.

Again, the fears can be completely unfounded, solidly based or halfway in between. But if the fears are overly exaggerated .......

I made the comment as a general comment to a phrase that someone else used and was not applying it to specific circumstances. Ignore the comment or apply it in the general sense that was intended but please don't go off on a tangent and apply more meaning than was intended, which is where you appear to be going by your next two sentences. I do not want to be a "debater over words."

[Retired-Veteran]

I haven't been on for some time as I have been building my car carrier for when I move down to LC. I have kept an eye on the crime in Mexico and at LC and it is unfortunately what this world has turned into.

I live (right now) next to some Bloods and NOW!, Latin Kings gang members. I tired, so long ago of the drugs and the people that use and "Think" there is no Human Factor (Human Cost-Price) in "Smoking a little or snorting a little".

We are seeing the human factor of the drug use and trade right now in the areas of LC.

I still am flying down in another 39 days to stay for five weeks. AND I still am moving lake side and have now set in stone that I leave on November 24th of 2012.

I agree that some people will leave the lake from this and the more crime to come, That is Very Sad.

I'll get on my soap box for a moment and say this........... It is my opinion;
A heck of a lot of this crime and killing "Is" brought on by America and their hunger for dope. AND the American government supplying the drug cartel with automatic weapons! That was/is just messed up!

I watch on TV most days the arguments between the courts and the American Government playing "Cover my A$$" on who is at fault in giving the weapons to the drug cartels. (Issa to Holder: Waiting for "Fast and Furious" docs like waiting for Godot - Political Hotsheet - CBS News ) All the while this is going on the People of Mexico are paying for the supposed "Investigation" by America of the War on Drugs!

The American Government is among one of the worse criminals, next to the Drug Cartels. ( no offence intended to anyone but if a person disagrees please read link above) What on Earth were they thinking? I just will never understand the way this government thinks.

[FHBOY]

RetVet: I cannot point to one specific incident in the USA's War on Drug and say that "it" was the most egregious. The whole concept of that action was flawed from the beginning, whenever that was and like other actions taken by the USA on various real and titled wars, executed as badly as conceived, like the idea of giving convicted arsonists traceable matches, and waiting to see what happened.

The USA war on drugs has been ongoing for how many years for how much money and what has been accomplished by it? You live with it every day...can you tell us what it has accomplished, cause I sure can't.

The argument of legalizing marijuana would be a band aid on the problem also. I believe that the consumption and distribution of marijuana should be legalized, regulated and controlled as we control the drug alcohol.

But that would not prevent the greater problem and unless the USA begins to look at drugs other than grass and meth [much of which is home grown and only now becoming an "import" product] and begin to treat it as the addiction and disease that it is until then all the enforcement, all the money all the lives lost will not change a thing.

What this tragedy shows, to me, is the Mexican equivalent of Chicago during Prohibition (and other places) and these unfortunate innocents to a "Valentines Day Massacre" south of the border. Am I saying that USA consumption for illegal drugs is the sole reason for this? No, but we cannot overlook it as a major contributing factor.

What the USA needs is not a war on drugs, but the treatment of drug addicts, a control on the consumer, the demand generator and, unfortunately, I have no idea how to do that. And until someone with more guts and brains than me comes up with this...your neighborhood, this cartel violence will continue. All the rest of us can hope that it stays away from us, a good thing to pray for, though I do not think prayer is the answer here.

[Retired-Veteran]

FHBoy,
I agree that the War on drugs is not worth the paper that the law is wrote on. It has accomplish nothing But... having men and women in our prisons for LIFE for just having a gram of weed. (Look into the three strikes and your out law) We have more people in prison that the rest of the world combined. (I don't know if that's a fact but you get my jest) . Maybe if America legalized pot and regulated and taxed it that would ease up 'some' of the crime but not all. Heck to tax pot would pay off this countries debt very fast.

But far better in my opinion would be that Americans "Grow the f up and stop using drugs."

Americans like there chemical drugs too and that is one of the reasons why I have to carry Mace and/or a gun just to check my mail at the front gate. I turned in the Bloods for cooking Meth three doors down. In short the local police told me to arm myself.

FHBoy, You had wrote " Am I saying that USA consumption for illegal drugs is the sole reason for this? No, but we cannot overlook it as a major contributing factor."

That is exactly what I was trying to get across (I hope I was able to do that in my last post if not I'm making that clear now.)

All the dang on wars the U.S. is in right now, and all the money we spend on war totals to 3 Billion A DAY! A day every day on war......... OMG!!!

If America took one months worth of money and spent it to rid Mexico of the cartels they would be history. There is very little being done in America to help the drug addicts or even to help educate the criminals in prison. They come out of our prison system better criminals.

It's more profitable for America to blow the bejesus out of other contries than to help addicts.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is pretty deep and perhaps to much so for this forum but I'll try. Forgive me if this is to controversial I have been thinking real hard for the past hour thinking if I should post this statement.
There was an offer back in 2009 made by Jax Desmond...
I don't say or write this flippantly nor with disrespect to anyone. The last thing I want to do is start a moral argument on this board but I have to wonder about what I've known of an what I had read in the past. I'm sure some of you ex-military are aware of this, if so forgive me.

But it was offered back in 2009, by a now former Backwater member, to rid Mexico of the Zetas for the sum of 100 million dollars. Backwater is the firm that President Bush II used to help fight in the gulf war 2 to do the dirty work that Bush did not want the American military to do AND to keep the body count lower for the press.

A lot of this is controversial in all angles and respect, but what I wonder is why the Mexican government does not look a little close at this still standing offer?

Backwater is made up of the most merciless organized hired military personnel in this world (IMHO) Blackwater USA | Blackwater is back. The solders that left to go with Jax come from Backwater, American S.F., D.F., N.S. and the Israeli Military....

I feel if they were given the freedom from the government that the drug cartels would be history in a very short time. Jax Desmond feels that he could rid Mexico of the Zetas in 120 days by using "every modern weapon available to him!"

As an American I'm almost ashamed to say that one of the very best things that America produces and is able to do is wage war and kill efficiently and within a budget.

*Snip*
BLACKWATER (Jax Desmond) has offered its services many times to Calderon! They put on the table a plan to get rid of the Zetas and ANY other violent groups in Mexico within 120 days not counting staging time (Getting the necessary equipment in place...) Calderon has declined to say yes to the offer! Their price for doing this is $100 Million +

A different story but it explains pretty good.
Watch Out Los Zetas Jax Desmond Worldwide Offers Support To Mexico In Battling Deadly Drug Cartel
Watch Out Los Zetas Jax Desmond Worldwide Offers Support To Mexico In Battling Deadly Drug Cartel | Reuters


Mexico: Exclusive–Los Zetas Responds to Jax Desmond, and Puts a Hit Out on the Company
Mexico: Exclusive–Los Zetas Responds to Jax Desmond, and Puts a Hit Out on the Company | Feral Jundi

I have to end by saying that Jax Desmond is still alive and well.


Now if America sent their military to get the cartels they would be gone in a matter of weeks....

[Souper]

Originally Posted by Retired-Veteran

FHBoy,
There is very little being done in America to help the drug addicts or even to help educate the criminals in prison. They come out of our prison system better criminals.

It's more profitable for America to blow the bejesus out of other countries than to help addicts.

I can't speak for every state but I've worked with inmates in CA, there are educational programs on the inside and residential treatment centers to help inmates transition to legal life on the outside.
Drug addiction is powerful, some stay clean, many don't.
I don't blame any government for people's personal drug addictions or their personal choice of a life of crime. Most inmates I see also take personal responsibility for their incarceration.
Please give me the details on "men and women in our prisons for LIFE for just having a gram of weed". I've heard that more than once, but I've never seen an inmate even in short term county for small marijuana possession. What state is this that locks up for life.
USA has people who make a choice to buy drugs, Mexico has people who make a choice to sell drugs.

[FHBOY]

Originally Posted by Retired-Veteran

FHBoy,
I agree that the War on drugs is not worth the paper that itis written on...Now if America sent their military to get the cartels they would be gone in a matter of weeks....

RetVet: Academi —previously known as Xe Services LLC, previously known as Blackwater USA is not an answer. It is an answer to make it's owners and previous owners richer, but to solve the problem, not so much. We have learned, sadly over the last ten years, that force alone cannot make change in an environment that does not want it or can support it. Even if Academi was illegally unleashed in Mexico, like Pappy Bush said about Baghdad, "Once you invade it, you own it", the USA would then have to "own" Mexico. There is a lot more to this argument...but this is not the Forum for it...the main thing is, it would not solve the problem and contrarily create many, many more.

No, the eradication of the the drug cartels in Mexico is a Mexican problem that affects the USA, but what is done there has to be done by them. Colombia is dealing with it's cartels, we do not hear about too much violence there (which does not mean it doesn't happen) because the Colombians had enough.

The USA, in the form of its military or in the form of its mercenary forces, cannot police the world. We went broke trying to do just that. What we can do with the billions from the failed war on drugs, it to re-channel it into social programs such as job creation for economic opportunity, education, universal health care and to make living healthy in the USA an easier and more attractive goal than the drug world.

This is a respectful argument that I am proud to be part of, and we seem to have a difference of opinion but have found some common ground from which to express them which is very healthy, thank you.

[Grizzy]

Originally Posted by Souper

I can't speak for every state but I've worked with inmates in CA, there are educational programs on the inside and residential treatment centers to help inmates transition to legal life on the outside.
Drug addiction is powerful, some stay clean, many don't.
I don't blame any government for people's personal drug addictions or their personal choice of a life of crime. Most inmates I see also take personal responsibility for their incarceration.
Please give me the details on "men and women in our prisons for LIFE for just having a gram of weed". I've heard that more than once, but I've never seen an inmate even in short term county for small marijuana possession. What state is this that locks up for life.
USA has people who make a choice to buy drugs, Mexico has people who make a choice to sell drugs.

Souper I am guessing that there is a huge difference in prison programs state by state. Ca may have rehab programs but I doubt Arizona, to name just one, has any for convicted drug offenders. Prisons seem to be a business like any other NoB from what I have seen and read. There to be run privately for profit to make their owners more money. Correct me if I am wrong.

[ReefHound]

Originally Posted by Souper

Please give me the details on "men and women in our prisons for LIFE for just having a gram of weed". I've heard that more than once, but I've never seen an inmate even in short term county for small marijuana possession. What state is this that locks up for life.
USA has people who make a choice to buy drugs, Mexico has people who make a choice to sell drugs.

Nobody gets life for mere possession of drugs. Maybe what some are thinking of is the three strikes and yer out policy that California and some other states have. That third strike in itself may often be relatively benign and something that would ordinarily get you a few months to a few years. And a lot of times the violation that goes on record is a reduced charge from a plea bargain on a much more serious charge.

[FHBOY]

This mornings paper carried a story about a town in New Mexico that regularly accepts cartel bribe money to smuggle people and drugs. There were arrests made in that case. Now, this is an effective way to deal with the drugs on this side of the border - can we police our own citizens to end this type of behaviors? Just a thought.

Could it be if you took the "three strikers" out of prison, if the strikes included low level marijuana busts, then law enforcement could concentrate on suppliers of hard drugs up the supply train, and the prisons wouldn't be overcrowded with relatively minor felons? Why do we continue to chase marijuana usage busts?

But since many prisons are for-profit these days, that won't happen, correct?

You see, the USA system is broken and too many special interests, too many extreme positions keeps it that way. A strong new program based on good solid methodology and with dynamic leadership (think The Untouchables) would probably be more effective.

[vantexan]

Heard on the news today several dozen dismembered bodies in garbage bags were tossed along a highway near Monterrey. There are two scenarios I do think worth considering. One is if the U.S. gov't ever greatly increases it's pressure on the cartels there might be reprisals on U.S. citizens in Mexico as well as attacks in border cities. Hasn't happened yet, might never, but it's possible. The other very possible scenario is you have hundreds if not thousands of armed thugs roaming around in these cartels. You never know when one might see a relatively wealthy American and decide to "have a little fun" or worse. Might have never happened, might never. But it's possible. For those reasons alone I think it's worth staying out of regions with alot of cartel activity. Or at least if you live in places like Monterrey be careful about where you go and when. I'm not saying be paranoid, just aware.