Bodies found near Lake Chapala

[Grizzy]

Originally Posted by FHBOY

I don't live there (yet) but I looked a a map. Saying this crime took place near Chapala/Ajijic, is like saying a murder in the Bronx was near Times Square. The town where they were found is on the other side of the mountain (so it appears) that you go over to get to Lakeside, a town not known for an expat population. The article said the perps planned to dump the bodies in Chapala/Ajijic, that never happened either.

When I get there, I will be concerned if and when this type of crime occurs closer to home, the executions and shootings, not dumping the bodies. Choosing where we have chosen to settle still seems safer than using the same criteria to measure danger in the Baltimore suburbs. We are only 5-8 miles, although it is another world, from where crime is committed regularly.

I'll take those odds.

FhBoy just to clarify, Ixtlahuacan is over the mountain but most of us consider it a part of the lakeside community. There are a growing number of expats living there and many of us visit the market and restaurants there.

And the word from the captured Zeta woman is that they planned on dumping the bodies in Ajijic but when the location was discovered the kidnappers fled and some hostages were released. The plans changed. Of course no one really knows 100% what the whole truth is but I think it is fairly safe to accept this version as close to the truth.

The bodies were refrigerated after death so they were not killed and beheaded lakeside. There is a battle over control of this area however. I have not seen much increased police presence and no army or military checkpoints. I personally believe they are badly needed here for the long term and am a bit perplexed as to why this hasn't happened yet.

As I said in my previous post I am not leaving. I still feel as safe here as I did last month, but I do keep my wits about me, as my granny used to say. I still go out at night and drive alone to Guad and other places. And I am preparing myself for more of the ugliness to happen here. I hope I am wrong.

[Detailman]

Originally Posted by sparks

You could post these types of messages everyday if you followed the drug wars. I suggest you put it on the 'back burner' and keep it in perspective

Location: Lower Mainland, British Columbia

Sparks:

Could you please clarify your comment about "location." Are you currently in the Lower Mainland, BC?

And could you please expand on putting something that I read in the news on the "back burner" and keeping it in perspective. Not sure where you are coming from and I would not want to comment on something prior to understanding the comment.

[FHBOY]

Maybe with my background as a New Yorker I cannot stir up enough alarm in myself to begin to reconsider my plans. Does it mean I have become enured to death and violence? No, not at all.

Grizzy tells the human side of a story like this and if I had known the players it too would have affected me, as it did her. Her feelings are hers and feelings are genuine and cannot be argued with. But I notice that she is not giving into fear, but taking those extra precautions one takes when something happens. Considering the frequency of event such as this, a hunker down, bunker mentality, flee the area approach does not seem warranted.

When she recounted that people unrelated to the drug cartels had been targeted, my reaction was that it was more a ransom - son of a restaurant owner - situation. Still, and this sounds terrible, it is not expats that are being targeted, it is rather locals (which does not make it less heinous). Again it sounds horrible, but I'd much more reconsider my move if there were a string of attacks on, murders of, kidnapping of expats in Ajijic.

Drawing again on the New York and Baltimore background, it is a matter of who you are, where you live and what steps you take that makes you safer. Notice I did not say safe, but safer - because be it there or here no one, except someone who lives in a closet, is totally safe.

Will there be a mass exodus of expats from Lakeside? Of course not, the news will be around for a while, some, like Grizzy, will be more affected than others, and life will go on. The odds, as I have said, are still infavor of moving/living there for us.

[Krogl]

@Grizzy, I live in Chapala and the scuttlebutt here amongst many that I know matches your scenario and belief. These were innocents and used as pawns for basically intimidation purposes. Sad, very sad. Up until now, as you stated, I wasn't concerned for my well being since I'm not involved in drugs and I didn't fear being the innocent bystander since that can happen anywhere.

I'm not scared however reality is setting in big time.

[tepetapan]

Originally Posted by Detailman

Sorry about that. If a person googles "bodies in van in lake chapala area" they will find numerous news sites reporting on it.

Fact is that Lakeside is still safer than many places in the USA. (Not so bad in Canada as most regular folks don't have guns due to our laws.)

BUT - about a week ago a Vancouver drug dealer was killed in Mexico and the police here in Vancouver were worried about retribution. In the last week there have been two or three drug hits. (They didn't miss so deaths were involved.)

I live here and it means virtually nothing to my safety.....

I like your comment about any "chicken littles." Right or wrong, others can benefit from exagerated fears.

" Right or wrong, others can benefit from exagerated fears." And how is that?
Exagerated fears are fears that....what?
How about a woman and her 3 daughters are kidnapped, 50% are dead. What about that as compared to a score of gangbangers dead?

[Grizzy]

There is random violent crime all over the world. In Vancouver, in my upscale suburb a number of drug gang leaders were gunned down in their million dollar driveways in the 3 or 4 years prior to me moving. Did it scare me? Not really.

Random violence is rampant in the US and is increasing in Canada. Mexicans have lived with the graphic violence of the cartels for a long time. Is it worse for them or for students of a school that has been shot up, or for a family whose loved ones were senselessly gunned down? I don't know. I think grief and shock are pretty universally hard.

I noticed last night, or in the middle of the night really as my insomnia kicked in, that four new houses were listed on the mls site yesterday. I doubt they were directly related to the recent events lakeside, however I do think that these events slowly convince people to relocated.

For me, putting what happened and how I felt in writing was very cathartic. Nothing has really changed for my day to day life and for that I am thankful. But when I heard the bells for mass for the dead boys this morning it sounded more personal for me. I am lucky. I can live in a secure home and afford to be careful about where and when I leave. Most Mexicans don't have the luxury of that kind of safety.

Is it better or worse than other countries? I don't think it is worse on a risk level. But I think the scope of the horrors and the randomness does have a very negative effect on people. It was a lot easier when I really believed that those killed were involved in the cartel life. When innocents are taken and no ransom is asked for, when young men disappear for no reason other than being outside in daylight, the veneer of self righteousness wears off.

FHBOy this is still a beautiful, safe place to live. The people still smile and greet you warmly and life goes on. I guess we all just wait for the next shoe to drop now.

[pappabee]

This is a very sad commentary on what it going on in Mexico. I know for a fact that at least one of the dead had nothing to do with anything he was just kidnapped to add to the body count. (he was our gardener)

This 'body count' was built in order to show how "bad" the Zeta's were and to keep the other cartels at bay. They wanted to equalize the 25 body count of Zetas that were found a few weeks ago.

Yes it is sad and even sadder when you know someone involved. But this is an innocent death just the same as it would be NOB. In every war innocents are hurt and killed. The sadness is still there and the hurt that you can do little to stop it or protect yourself other than take the normal precautions.

If you want to live your life looking over your shoulder you could do so in most NOB cities. I for one choose to not be overly concerned with the 'over the shoulder' mode and just live my life as best I can.

I will do whatever I can to help the widow and her children and I will morn the loss of a smiley face three times a week.

[conorkilleen]

If you have eyes in the back of your head then you don't need to look over your shoulder. Through some training in a "past life", I have leaned to have a keen sense, even behind me. Literally, looking over your shoulder constantly gives the potential perp a sense that you are insecure about your surroundings and going to make mistakes when confronted with violence.

[Detailman]

Originally Posted by conorkilleen

If you have eyes in the back of your head then you don't need to look over your shoulder. Through some training in a "past life", I have leaned to have a keen sense, even behind me. Literally, looking over your shoulder constantly gives the potential perp a sense that you are insecure about your surroundings and going to make mistakes when confronted with violence.

I think you and I have experienced the same training in the past.

I always go by that inner sense and tell my wife to do so.

I can only remember one time when I ignored it. I had a strong inner feeling about the person behind me in a line up (just bad vibes although I had not looked at him but knew I should due to the circumstances).. Stupid mistake. We were in a line up in the bank. I went to one teller he went to the other teller "and robbed the bank" as I stood at the next teller.

Told myself: Never again ignore those innner feelings. Those type of feelings have saved many a life of both men and woman.

The "experts" will tell you to go by those feelings.

[conorkilleen]

knowing what not to do is almost more valuable than knowing what to do.