The following quote appears in another thread. I would like accept your offer and present a contrary view.

In my humble opinion (IMHO), baseball is the worst sport for many kids. Soccer is much better. Why?

Baseball puts a lot of pressure on individuals to perform. When you are at bat, all eyes are on you. When you are fielding and the ball comes your way, you better catch it. This may be great if you are naturally skilled and enjoy the limelight. But if you are mediocre or, horrors, even uncoordinated or incompetent, your failure is on display for all to see. And your performance affects the score in a very public and personal way. So baseball may be great for those who are good, but for those (of us) who are not natural athletes, it can be a painful sport to play. Furthermore, it is not an active sport. It entails no particular activity except on the part of a few players a few times during the game who make a short run.

In contrast, soccer is a team sport that anyone, athletic or not, can enjoy. If you are good at it, you can excel; if not, well, the ball only comes your way once in a while and all you have to do is kick it away, hopefully to one of your teammates, but if not it is not the end of the world. And the error is rarely ever as serious as missing a catch in baseball. The rest of the time you can run around getting a lot of good exercise and enjoying being part of the team. Obviously, this applies to young kid's games, not to higher levels of competition. But by that time, you won't be playing if you don't want to.

And I speak from personal experience on both sides. When I was young, I was the fat, uncoordinated kid that only got chosen for a side in baseball games because my parents insisted that they let me play if they wanted to have my younger, more talented brother on their team. And I once coached my daughter's soccer team. It was supposed to be coached by the parent of one of the Mexican kids on the team. But he couldn't do it so I stepped in even though I had zero experience playing soccer. I saw first hand the kids that were good at it and the kids that just ran around. But they were all part of the team, got a lot of exercise and had a great time.

Fortunately, my baseball experience was not a life ending embarrassment. Now I am a skinny 67 year old planning to run my 48th marathon in Mazatlan in a few months. But, baseball a great game? I respectfully disagree.

__________________
Will

http://www.theprescotts.com/cronologia/

TundraGreen,


Congratulations!! You have come a million miles from those baseball days. I am extremely impressed by the number of marathons you have run. It takes another long distance runner to appreciate your dedication and love of running to know what your accomplishment really means.

I have run up to half marathons and some longer distances in training but my cardiologist, who is a triathlete, does not want me running marathons. 10K's are my race of choice.

For those of you who are not runners I have to mention that a half marathon is not twice the race of a 10K and a full marathon is not twice the race of a half marathon. In distance --- yes. In effort you should rate the longer distances almost like the Richter scale for earthquakes. An earthquake of 8 on the Richter scale is ten (10) times as strong as one of 7 and a marathon is probably 4 times (not scientific estimate) as strenuous as a half marathon.

Keep up the good work TundraGreen. You just became my exemplar.

thread drift already?? start a marathon thread for crying out loud.

i love you guys. Will, thanks for your obvious effort. a reply is coming soon.

__________________
remember, two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do. sometimes you have to go around the block to get what you left behind. happy trails and safe travels, ed.

i just love the fact that i get to watch the All Star game as i write this. now that's KARMA!
thanks for this opportunity will.

it's going to be hard to do this without my snob side coming out, so bear with me.
which in a wierd way is due to my love of baseball. as you noted, it will humble you in a heartbeat.
In my inflated opinion (IMIO), baseball has lost a lot of it's luster,
which started about the time it became glamerous. blame the babe, and every ego since.
but those big egos are based on real acclomplishment, or used to be.
marketing is what is ruining baseball the same way it poisions everything.

the essense of the game is and always will be the ultimate performance art.
when you understand the game, every inning is an act in epic opera.
every pitch is a scene that writes it's self. the drama, the tension, is what 'bores' the novice.

but let me address your points.
"Baseball puts a lot of pressure on individuals to perform. When you are at bat, all eyes are on you. When you are fielding and the ball comes your way, you better catch it. This may be great if you are naturally skilled and enjoy the limelight. But if you are mediocre or, horrors, even uncoordinated or incompetent, your failure is on display for all to see. And your performance affects the score in a very public and personal way. So baseball may be great for those who are good, but for those (of us) who are not natural athletes, it can be a painful sport to play."

to me, this sound a lot the same for either sport. the futbol must be dealt with, etc.

"Furthermore, it is not an active sport. It entails no particular activity except on the part of a few players a few times during the game who make a short run."

on every pitch, ten players focus on that, prepared to spring into action.
if you watch a good team, and watch the others instead of the ball, they will all move on the pitch.
maybe just a little crouch, a tensing of muscles, but all good players participate in every play, even a foul ball.
and the drama builds.
on any batted ball, every fielder goes into motion, his responsibility determined by the situation as it develops. you're right about one thing tho, elsewhere.
one tiny mistake can ruin the whole day for the whole team.

no doubt baseball is not for everyone. one reason i consider it the best is because it is the most difficult.
the debate will always rage, but i contend nothing esle comes so hard as this:

use a round bat to squarely strike a small ball traveling close to 100 mph, while changing direction.
by the time the pitcher releases that ball, it is barely more than 55 feet away.
just to be silly, i'll say this: you can't beat it with a stick.

but to focus on that is to miss it's beauty and it's value.
i'll get to that in a bit.

"In contrast, soccer is a team sport that anyone, athletic or not, can enjoy. If you are good at it, you can excel; if not, well, the ball only comes your way once in a while and all you have to do is kick it away, hopefully to one of your teammates, but if not it is not the end of the world. And the error is rarely ever as serious as missing a catch in baseball. The rest of the time you can run around getting a lot of good exercise and enjoying being part of the team. Obviously, this applies to young kid's games, not to higher levels of competition. But by that time, you won't be playing if you don't want to."

that's fine, but again the sports are similar. your kicks better be beneficial. sports has a way of winnowing the clumsy, slow, etc.
i would guess that in any country where futbol is the most popular sport, sucking at soccer comes with a stigma.

futbol teachs many things, especially footwork. every baseball position has it's own unique footwoork.
and if you happen to have great hand-to-eye co-ordination, how long do you play futbol before you know it?

"And I speak from personal experience on both sides. When I was young, I was the fat, uncoordinated kid that only got chosen for a side in baseball games because my parents insisted that they let me play if they wanted to have my younger, more talented brother on their team. "

marketing led to what now passes for parental involement. adults should not supervise kids sports.
they take all the fun out of it. the ones who have their own adgenda take over, and they stupidvise.

"And I once coached my daughter's soccer team. It was supposed to be coached by the parent of one of the Mexican kids on the team. But he couldn't do it so I stepped in even though I had zero experience playing soccer. I saw first hand the kids that were good at it and the kids that just ran around. But they were all part of the team, got a lot of exercise and had a great time. "

sincerely now, you deserve a gold star. your agenda was to see the kids have fun.
i'll bet it was fun for you too. i know you've seen the ugly side of things by parents, so i'll skip it.

38 Special wrote a song about love, just not about kids, but it works well on youth.
the lyrics to "Hold On Loosely" should be on every parent's fridge door.
when left to their own devices children do remakable things.
of course they can also be quite cruel, so parents have to be involved, but that's not always the best answer either.
sometimes there is no 'best' answer.

"Fortunately, my baseball experience was not a life ending embarrassment. . . But, baseball a great game? I respectfully disagree."

your baseball experience could have been much worse. todays youngsters are taught that self esteem can be given.
they learn that they are entitled to good self esteem. they have trophies to prove it.
you and i know that effort and accomplishment establish self esteem. that lesson has largely been discarded.
here's the funny part: they think they are putting fun back in the game.

this is too long, so i'll save my points for the next post.
i enjoy this. it's always refreshing to discuss disagreements like civilized people.
not that i'm making any claims, but at least nobody is screaming at me.
yet.

8-0 NL, bottom of the fourth inning. could be a laffer, but in the immortal words of Joaquín Andújar,
"You could sum it up in one word: yaneverknow"

__________________
remember, two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do. sometimes you have to go around the block to get what you left behind. happy trails and safe travels, ed.

Sorry, haven't been on the forum much in the last week so missed all the discussions about this side forum. I think I understand it now. Bye.

this is the quickest and easiest way to make my main point.
five years ago i put this on a blog, which is no longer around.
the numbers are off a little, but the gist is still relevant.
not a word has been changed.

originally posted at Authornation(.)com


Stop the demise of Baseball
*
WHY BASEBALL IS STILL THE BEST,
AND HOW TO SAVE MLB FROM ITSELF.
(Part one of a continuing series.)
*
It’s too bad our former ‘National Pastime’ has diminished to the point the NFL is more important and popular. There are many reasons why Baseball should always be ‘Americas Game’. Here are just a few.
*
It’s the most demanding sport: The debate may rage on, but for my money, the hardest feat to perform in all of sports, is using a round bat, to squarely strike a small round ball, moving nearly 100 mph, in a crooked line. Think about it.
*
It’s played in the summer: Would you rather sit in the sun on a beautiful day, or endure very cold and wet weather, even if it’s just getting to the game. And schools out.
*
Your team plays 81 home games every year: Ten times as many as any NFL team, double what an NBA team (with much smaller venues) has.
There’s more drama and better reception: Every pitch is a one-act play, sometimes astounding, and you don’t need to attempt to watch twenty-two people at once. (Not counting officials, coaches, etc.) It all happens in front of you, no tennis-neck needed.
*
It’s the ultimate ‘team’ sport: Every player has ‘back-up’ responsibilities, and one little mistake can ruin everyone’s day. No other sport has a ‘sacrifice’ statistic.
*
The impossible happens all the time: ‘Web Gems’, as they are called now, can take your breath away. If you’ve never seen ‘The Play’ by Ozzie Smith, ask a baseball fan to tell you about it. When you do see it, you will become a fan.
*
It is still the ‘Common Mans Game’, maybe the last one with a real chance to survive. Nearly 75 million paid attendance is a number the other sports can only drool over. That number does not include post-season contests. Or the minor leagues.
There were three huge so-called ‘sports’, (but really entertainment), when sports became entertainment. They allowed one (3?) place for any schmoe to slide along in the wake of swells.
*
They were the three equalizers.
Boxing, horse racing and baseball were everywhere, and they were where anyone with the price of a ticket could walk the same turf with the real power people. As America’s society evolved during the late 1800s, and the next century, a huge middle class with disposable income became the real power in our country. Only loosely organized at best, the sheer magnitude of the dollars these people spent made them the fuel driving the engine of our economy.
*
Boxing fans were (and still are) stars themselves, tuxedoed, with escorts couiffured to the limit up front, stretching back to the nosebleed seats in the next county, with every slice of society in between. Over time it has evolved; Now the working class stay at home to watch on pay-per-view, but the numbers are fading like a bruise going away. It was called the Sweet Science, a passion, even addiction, to some. Personally, I dislike the idea of winning any contest by violently knocking your opponent unconscious. That seems primitive, even for us. Sounds a lot like dog fighting with bigger two-legged dogs.
*
The ‘Sport of Kings’, horse racing, gathered similar followers, the first organized legal sports betting to spread everywhere. Men have always loved horses, but since someone else was riding them, that left only betting on them for the rest of us. Somehow, it caught on. Back then it was one of the big three.
*
The biggest of races were (and still are) annual super-social events, such as the Kentucky Derby. It has been described as ‘the most exciting sixty seconds in sports’ by it’s enthusiasts; Horse racing has it’s own trinity, the Triple Crown of the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness Stakes, and the Belmont Stakes. This storied tradition ruled the roost for decades. Less than a dozen horses have won it, in over 130 years of trying.
From the first year (1875) all three races have been contested, 44 years passed before ‘Sir Barton’ (1919) corralled the lot for the first time. ‘Affirmed’ won it last in 1978.
*
Hardly anyone under thirty years of age can name all three races now.
As the buggy-whip factories closed, so shall the racetrack, as the baby-boomers exit the parking lot.
*
Both these enterprises have suffered dwindling masses of fans.
*
We may debate whether boxing or horse racing is declining down the steepest spiral the fastest, but if you think they’re not sinking, you’re not thinking at all. The question now has become, ‘Can either sink lower than hockey’?
*
The ‘history of sports’ occurring right now is three giants dying slow deaths: Boxing, Horse Racing, and the NHL wither, while the NFL and NBA elbow MLB to the side. Any baseball fan will tell you, we don’t settle for third place, thank you very much.
(Soccer is not part of this topic; if the rest of the world likes it, good for them.)
(Golf is ‘A good walk spoiled’ according to Churchill, tennis I just don’t have room for. Both started as something only the rich could play, so I hold that against them too. Besides that, they’re imports.)
*
The face of America is changing, and MLB better start getting the point.
The X-Games, Ultimate Fighting and NASCAR are good examples of other choices the youth have.
*
So, consider Major League Baseball, in some ways the heart of America. Pick one from column A.
*
[ ] A transplant.
[ ] A coronary.
*
More on this, and what MLB can do to save it’s future, coming soon to this space near you.
Remember, two wrongs don’t make a right, but three lefts do.
Happy trails, ed.
Copyright 2007, an excerpt from “The A-be-Zees of Life, Learning to Love Living”, by ed elledge.
*

(Ed. note: the Churchill quote is an error, Mark Twain should get the credit.)

__________________
remember, two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do. sometimes you have to go around the block to get what you left behind. happy trails and safe travels, ed.

Edgee,

I have no comment on the professional game of baseball either for the players or as a spectator sport. I was responding to your statement that it was a good game for children.

__________________
Will

http://www.theprescotts.com/cronologia/

Don't apologize. Marathons are much more interesting than baseball.

__________________
Will

http://www.theprescotts.com/cronologia/

"i personally believe that baseball is the best way any child can learn how intricate and complex life can be, and how to deal with that."
is what i said.

it's good for the kids, just like any sport is. when you're six years old, or 10, or 15, sports teaches many of life's lessons.
remember, the best way to learn is from mistakes, which means failing a lot at whatever we do.
i used MLB as an example, because that's where the heroes are found. that's the holy grail for kids who DO love baseball.

in it's nuance, baseball teaches lessons not found in other sports.
it teaches that you have to be part of a team,
and it teaches that when it's your turn, you have to perform as an indiviual.
it teaches how to step up and represent your teammates at the plate, and how to deal with failing.
it teaches that every member of a team is important in their own way.
and many more, and other sports can be used the same way when done well.

consider sport as a tool for learning. each sport is a different tool, a hammer, a saw, a tape measure and so on.
baseball is the swiss army knife.

the old article simply lists some of the more appealing aspects of the game in general.
great and memorable moments don't begin in the big leagues, they start in backyards.

my dad hardly played catch with me, he was a farmer, forced to work for the railroad to pay for his farming.
games didn't fit into his life, unless you count cards at night. he did, but it just couldn't be a priority.

he was wonderful, still is at 81, and no one could ask for a better father.
but we never shared that much, and we both were less for it.
(i'd like to hear from those who did get to play catch, from either end. what's that memory worth?)

i can't think of a better way to get a son to talk to his dad.

parents today lose touch with their kids when they insist on leading instead of following.
let your kids take the lead sometimes. you might learn something. (the public 'you' of course.)
i find it odd that parents demand trust from their progeny, yet give it grudgingly.
but that's just me.

baseball and all sports should be what the young natural inclination says it should be.

no kid should be forced into anything, with some obvious exceptions.
better to induce them if you must, but this is the kind of things when indulging them can be a good thing.
(IMO parents indugle their kids to gain favor. it's just so damn easy to spoil someone you love.)
but kids will tell you, many of them anyway, what they really want is your interest in them.
hell, someone even invented the phrase "quality time" just to try to explain it.

sports in general may be of little value to any given kid, but they probably have other interests.
if so, that needs to be explored. some things never grow old. being good at something is one of them.
too many kids are forced to live out their parents' dreams.

the article that followed on that blog listed some things i wanted to see MLB do, for the good of the game.

here's item number one:
(begin quote)

In that spirit, here’s my own ‘If I Were Commissioner’ list.
*
[1] Give unlimited Wiffle Ball sets to the YMCA, and every other type of youth sports organization that wants them, all over America.
This is a natural, a no-brainer if there ever was one.
The manufacturer and MLB both win.
Lots of revenue and brand recognition for Wiffle Ball and the cost to a giant of industry like MLB would be peanuts.
The ‘good will’ element by itself would justify the expense.
Maybe just locally at first, but eventually world wide.

The most common reason given why soccer is more popular worldwide is that all they need is a ball; no gloves, bases and all that stuff.
Consider this: One-on-one Wiffle ball took up most of my playtime while growing up. All you need is a friend, the bat, the ball, and some imagination.
It’s hard to invent interest, as all advertising people know, but MLB must feed and water it everywhere it exists, holding close the few new fans there are.
*
(end quote)

so that's why i love wiffle ball so much, because it's the gateway to baseball.
it's safe for all ages, and it allows skill developement at a very young age.

WB teaches throwing, running, fielding and batting (hand-to-eye co-ordination).
mainly tho, it teaches co-operation. it teaches that two heads are better than one.
it promotes fair play by making you accountable to your friends.
it fosters respect and REAL self esteem, by one's efforts and acclompishments.
and in a sneaky way, it makes learning fun. one of the greatest gifts there is.
WB is to MLB, what kindergarten is to real life.

real life is so complex and so spontaneous it defies description.
baseball is that way too.

the basics are simple enough, but not to everyone. it's not for everyone.
you can disagree with my original opinion
but until you know the game a little better, it's a hard position to support.
it's like me saying ballet isn't art, since i know so little about it.

you might have had a much better experience with baseball if you'd had a wiffle ball set when you were three.

at some time in your life Will, you got interested in distance running, somehow.
that interest led you to a lot of gratification when you acted on it.
do you ever wish you had started sooner?

as i mentioned before, Mexico has baseball. i'm guessing it's the second most popular sport, or close to it. maybe rodeos, i don't know?
i'm sure you have a friend or two who is a BB fan. ask around, and see what they say.
(now i have to go google a bunch of stuff to see how wrong i am -- i HATE research!)
bingo! i love google. a summer league, and a winter league, primarily northern Mexico.

so it's already a big deal. and giving little kids toys is as old as having kids.

in fact, if someone will put up a link for the proper youth league type bureaucracy in lakeside area,
i will send a few knock-offs from the dollar store.
just a gesture of gratitude for all the help i've recieved.
i've no idea what it would cost to send, so some estimate from someone who has sent packages to Mex. would help.
and who to use.

one oddity worthy of note. i know golf has the reputation of humbling players in horrible ways,
but it's much worse in baseball. in baseball, we don't give strokes.
but it's main beauty lies in how humiliating it can be, how it forces the player to study his failures.
even the top hitters only get a hit about one time in three trys. so he fails twice as much as he succeeds.

in nearly all other sports, players say "keep your chin up".
in BB, we say "keep your head down".

because all that failure makes success all the sweeter, so doing it well can inlate an ego fast.

before big business grabbed control of MLB, it had huge problems, in a small-town kind of way.
i can recommend a great book if anyone's interested.
it was a bunch of families, and a bunch of guys who worked regular jobs, BB was a game, not a job.
it's easy to make a case that the history of MLB and the USA history are more entertwined than any other.
WWII made sports heroes into real heros, when only hollywood had that sort of thing.
and BB has always had the edge in mass numbers, 162 game seasons does that.

it was a three ring circus for many years, the Players, the Owners and big business fighting for control.
what we have now is still a great pastime, but with a lot of impurities mixed in.

__________________
remember, two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do. sometimes you have to go around the block to get what you left behind. happy trails and safe travels, ed.

My grandmother once wrote that every family should have a passion, something they cared strongly about. It is clear that baseball is yours. Enjoy.

__________________
Will

http://www.theprescotts.com/cronologia/