Want to get married, girlfriend's mom difficult, manipulative woman

[watamari]

"At the very least, she wants us to fulfill pre-marriage obligations that would be considered appropriate by normal Japanese. My understanding is that in Japan a boyfriend will often propose to the girlfriend, the girlfriend will then tell her parents, and the guy will then go to her parents’ home for a marriage greetings Aisatsu. Many times that is the very first time that the parents and boyfriend would meet. After that, it seems that the parents of both sides may meet, after which some families may choose to have a Yuino engagement dinner, followed by the wedding.
Has anyone had experience in any situation like this? Should we broach her mom about the possibility of us getting married before we even get engaged? Do my parents need to meet her parents before we get married?"

Dear Andrew,
I'm Japanese and married to a gaijin, live in the US. My parents spent 10 years in the US when I was a child, and still keep up with many American friends. My dad also keeps up professional relationships with his foreign colleagues. They are open minded in many ways, but it's not always easy to suppress one's culture. I've been through hell and back with my parents on this marriage. One thing you don't mention is whether your girlfriend is an only child, where she is in the sibling hierarchy. What is really tough for my parents is that I am the older daughter in a two daughter family. I would be expected to take care of them in their old age, but I have abandoned them. My mother complains bitterly whenever she or my dad have some health crisis or other crisis. I am not there to help them, to visit the hospital, etc. And I feel really guilty.
Many years ago, my relationship with them deteriorated to the point that my husband and I spent the most miserable Christmas in our lives when we visited them. It was horrible, the hidden anger underneath trying to celebrate Christmas together. I realized then that I had to do something to repair the rift. What I did was to write several long letters to them, telling them how much I loved and respected them. I described the things I appreciated about them, the things they'd done for me as a child. I offered for them to come live with us in the US in their old age, I meant it. And gradually, very gradually, things improved. It helped that my husband found a real job. It helped that we bought a house. It helped when we had a child. It helped when I took time off work to go to Japan when my father was very ill, and stayed a month. Last summer, I spent a month in Japan and hunkered down and cleaned and organized their house, top to bottom.
I know deep down that they are still very sad. They don't want to come and live in the US with me. But they've come to appreciate how happy I am, they've come to appreciate the courteous, culturally sensitive bits of my husband, his efforts to learn and speak Japanese.
Every family dynamic is different. But anger is often a cloak that hides fear and sorrow. To see an angry person as someone to be sorry for, someone weaker than oneself, and in need of empathy, might help you feel less defensive.
Secondly, I think formalities are very important in dealing with older Japanese people. If you could meet with your girlfriend's parents, and formally ask for her hand in marriage, that would be great. Officially, you would be asking her father, so you're lucky it's not the other way around. Then it would be nice if the two sets of parents could meet. My parents traveled to meet my husband's parents, but they combined it with some other trip. But considering how difficult and expensive it is to do this, I don't think it's absolutely necessary. I think what traditionally gets discussed at these parental meetings is that the bride's parents give a large sum of money to the groom's parents, a dowry in old days, but now, money to pay for the wedding, and then the groom's parents give half or less of that amount to the bride's parents, I forget what for. Since you are both in your 30's and probably financially independent?, you might substitute for the parents formal meeting with some kind of formal discussion of wedding finances, and a monetary gift supposedly from your parents to them within a nice greeting card. (In the traditional meeting, the bride and groom know beforehand how much the bride's side will be giving the other, so that the groom can let his parents know how much money to give back in return.) Since Japanese weddings cost an arm and a leg, the money part can soften or exacerbate tensions. My husband and I skipped having a wedding in Japan to save money. I have no idea how your future in-laws feel about having a wedding in Japan. Maybe they'd be offended and think you're cheap, or on the other hand, maybe they don't want people to find out their daughter is marrying a gaijin and don't want to celebrate. I don't know.
My instinctive advice to you is to be as respectful as possible, and to keep being polite even when the other party is dastardly, until they start feeling ashamed of themselves. I don't know if it's going to work for you, but you'll have a chance over the long run, whereas burning bridges now will really mean no chance of anything ever working. Japanese parent child relationships are a lot gooier and sentimental than American ones, so I think it will be difficult for your girlfriend to cut ties with her parents.
I know many many Japanese women happily married to Americans where I live. Only one couple got divorced, but in their case, the husband was more conservative and didn't like his wife having a life outside of marriage and taking care of kids!
Good luck!
Mari

[Hound Dog]

Originally Posted by Andrew916

My girlfriend and I are both in our early 30s and have been going out for many years. We are planning to get married and are trying to figure out how to approach her family.

We both have stable jobs in the U.S. that provide us with a nice lifestyle. My girlfriend has been living in the U.S. for half of her life and is fully Americanized. Her whole family is bilingual (English/Japanese), so there is no language barrier between her family and me. I’ve visited her family a couple of times in Japan, and her dad would be perfectly fine with us getting married. The only thing stopping us from getting married is her mother, a bitter and angry woman who will likely use every excuse she can to stop us from going through with it.

Let me first say that I feel very sorry for my girlfriend that she has to deal with this unstable and emotionally abusive mother, even if they are separated by the ocean. Without going into too many details, let it suffice to say that her mom is likely to try every trick she knows to attempt to emotionally manipulate my girlfriend into not marrying me. (I’m quite sure, by the way, that this has nothing to do with me personally or the fact that I’m not Japanese.) My girlfriend is fully aware of how abusive and manipulative her mother can be, and absolutely wants to marry me one way or the other. At the same time, however, she would like to get her mom to accept the marriage. At the very least, she wants us to fulfill pre-marriage obligations that would be considered appropriate by normal Japanese.

I solve my problem by telling my parents we were going to get married with a week and then tell them we were married in a private ceremony and invited them to spend time with us in the US at their convenience after we got married, we then went to spend a month in France.

My understanding is that in Japan a boyfriend will often propose to the girlfriend, the girlfriend will then tell her parents, and the guy will then go to her parents’ home for a marriage greetings Aisatsu. Many times that is the very first time that the parents and boyfriend would meet. After that, it seems that the parents of both sides may meet, after which some families may choose to have a Yuino engagement dinner, followed by the wedding.

Though it may be expensive and not exactly what we may want, we are willing to do the Aisatsu, and then bring my parents to Japan for Yuino. The whole thing, including the wedding, would be in Japan if need be. (Her mom basically refuses to leave the city they live in, and she would never leave Japan for a trip.) Even though we are willing to go through all of this trouble and expense, I’m not sure if it’s worth it, because it seems like no matter what we do, her mom will play emotional games and be mad.

Has anyone had experience in any situation like this? Should we broach her mom about the possibility of us getting married before we even get engaged? Do my parents need to meet her parents before we get married? Or should we just go ahead with the wedding while being prepared to deal with her mom’s anger and manipulation, based on the idea that no matter what we do, she is going to try to make our lives miserable? Any advice that anyone could provide would be really appreciated. Thanks.

Your problem is not unique and although I think the fact you are not Japanese does not work in your favor, it is a universal problem especially when one marries outside of ones culture. A manipulative mother makes the problem even worst.

You do have to disgust the problem with your girlfriend and have to go through the worst case scenarios with her. But even that is no guaranty when a crises comes.
I am French my husband is American, my sister married a Spaniard, my nephew married a Japanese and the other nephew is engaged to a Vietnamese. The Asian mothers are no piece of cakes but the Spaniard won the price! I thought of her when I read your thread.
The only thing you can do is have a serious talk with your girlfriend and agree on a course of action. If her mother is totally unreasonable she has to chose between you and her mother: it is that simple.
The Spanish mother in law had her son break every engagement he ever had until my sister came, she told her husband to chose between his mother and his wife and had her husband explain to his mother the way it was going to be.
There was a truce..never great relationship but a truce, that is the best you can hope.
Cultural differences can be great but can also cause a lot of misunderstandings and you have to go through it over and over. Even the body language will full fool you..Getting married someone from another culture is great but it has its problems. Wait until you have children, then you can argue how to raise them and so on.. You have a plus, Japan is far away and your mother in law cannot pop in whenever there is a problem!

[benben]

Originally Posted by Andrew916

My girlfriend and I are both in our early 30s and have been going out for many years. We are planning to get married and are trying to figure out how to approach her family. ... Any advice that anyone could provide would be really appreciated. Thanks.

2/21/09 4:43 PM
Having been in your situation twice and having handled it differently each time, maybe I can shed some light.

The Mother In Law can indeed make your life miserable, and getting out of it after marriage will be difficult and expensive. So this is the best time to heed Benjamin Franklin's advice: enter marriage with eyes wide open (link to is.gd/koPa ). Having been through a marriage and a divorce in Japan, I've learned it the hard way. To make a 20-year saga short: we married, shortly thereafter had a child. About 10 years later her mother passed away, she did some rather uh... self-destructive actions. Result: I moved to the USA, and due to family law in Japan our child stayed in Japan.

So, are your eyes opened yet? How is her relationship with her mother? And how is her relationship with her father? How has she handled differences of opinion between her mother and her father? You don't need to answer me, but you had better answer yourself. Maybe it will open your eyes.

My advice is to make sure she takes the lead in handling the issue with her mother. You can support her, you can be the engine that gives it power, but she must be the director. She knows her parents better than you do.

If you plan to live in the USA, then there are acculturation issues to deal with. Americans make friends in a different way - easier to make but easier to break, but require her to be more outgoing. In Japan I found friendships to be slower to start, but more solid, and more is expected. Life is not necessarily easier in the US.

So your post was a couple of months ago. How has it gone since then?