Moving to Ofena

[flawed]

Hey Bruce,

We got home late last night, long day of travelling. We settled at the notary on the Monday, I could barely lift my head off the table, Rod and I have had the flu all week. Rod got sick after going into the middle pyramid in Cairo. Apples and I got sick a couple of days later. Not how I wanted to spend my time at the house. We ended up paying heaps of tax, even with me declaring a first residency. Our place was 53000 Euro , but with taxes all up 65000. We ended up raiding all our credit cards for the extra, so not the smartest move for exchange/costs of borrowing. Because the place is big (heaps of cellars) and there is over 500 metres of land on three parcels.It is in Ofena on Via Savoia. 68- 70 There was some mix up with the mill/ garage, so I hope the notary got it right in the end.

We cleaned a lot of rubbish out and swept the floors and cobwebbed the walls and doors. We still haven't tackled the room with 5inches of bird poo on the floor. There is a similar crust in the ceiling which will have to go. We put our face masks on and just went for it. WE were a bit surprised at how cold it was. It was ok during the day, but we fould it hard to get warm and comfortable in the evenings.

Gianni said you stayed with him in Carrufo. We probably should have too, but it's a bit far for a toilet run. It will be good when the power and water are on at our place. The architect brought a builder to look at the place, and Gianni brought a plumber and electrician. The electrician is the one you used yes? What a sweet man. The plumber I wanted to strangle. I really didn't like him and unless someone tells me his work is excellent, I'd rather not use him as he is argumentative, and everything was a problem. WE will have to do a lot more work than we hoped to straight away, as the roof needs work. The old gal pipes are leaking. The water is connected at the house but when we turned it on, it leaked in the roof, so it will all have to be replaced. Same with the wiring.

We will be back in July for two weeks and in Sept for a week, if all goes to plan

Originally Posted by Goingtoitalia

Hi Barry,
And fun was had by all...... I did not get to meet Lynda as she came in the day I left. I heard through Gianni, that the house is finally hers. And I thought waiting 4 months was tough....Where did Lynda buy? Carrufo, Villa or Qfena?
PS I found the people at Marni in San Pio to be great, along with Millenium (industrial, but seems like family once inside, bathrooms and tile are upstairs), Globo tile has amazing stuff, but you have to work hard to find deals, and no one speaks English, shopping at OBI and Costorama in Sambuceto good, as they had a variety and are large. Highly recommend Mondo Convienza as a shoppers paradise, the IKEA in Ancona offered so much more than here in the States, after the remodel both Mondo and IKEA will get most of my business. Then I will go to the antique shops for character pieces.

[flawed]

Hi Barry, thanks for the advice on Marini's. We picked up tools and cleaning stuff there and from the one closer near the service station. Giacinta and Vince were really nice and helpful. She is so smiley, and good to deal with. It was cold at Laura's house even with the column heaters on. No wonder people have boilers and pipes. I wouldn't mind some reverse cycle split system air conditioners. Giannis place was warm as he had a wood stove burning. Gianni and Mira invited us for a lovely lunch to celabrate our purchase.We got to try some of Gianni's home made wines, ham, and sausage.

[maryann]

Originally Posted by flawed

Hey Bruce,

We got home late last night, long day of travelling. We settled at the notary on the Monday, I could barely lift my head off the table, Rod and I have had the flu all week. Rod got sick after going into the middle pyramid in Cairo. Apples and I got sick a couple of days later. Not how I wanted to spend my time at the house. We ended up paying heaps of tax, even with me declaring a first residency. Our place was 53000 Euro , but with taxes all up 65000. We ended up raiding all our credit cards for the extra, so not the smartest move for exchange/costs of borrowing. Because the place is big (heaps of cellars) and there is over 500 metres of land on three parcels.It is in Ofena on Via Savoia. 68- 70 There was some mix up with the mill/ garage, so I hope the notary got it right in the end.

We cleaned a lot of rubbish out and swept the floors and cobwebbed the walls and doors. We still haven't tackled the room with 5inches of bird poo on the floor. There is a similar crust in the ceiling which will have to go. We put our face masks on and just went for it. WE were a bit surprised at how cold it was. It was ok during the day, but we fould it hard to get warm and comfortable in the evenings.

Gianni said you stayed with him in Carrufo. We probably should have too, but it's a bit far for a toilet run. It will be good when the power and water are on at our place. The architect brought a builder to look at the place, and Gianni brought a plumber and electrician. The electrician is the one you used yes? What a sweet man. The plumber I wanted to strangle. I really didn't like him and unless someone tells me his work is excellent, I'd rather not use him as he is argumentative, and everything was a problem. WE will have to do a lot more work than we hoped to straight away, as the roof needs work. The old gal pipes are leaking. The water is connected at the house but when we turned it on, it leaked in the roof, so it will all have to be replaced. Same with the wiring.

We will be back in July for two weeks and in Sept for a week, if all goes to plan

Hi, there,
My name is MaryAnn and I came across your posting. I am so sorry to hear of all these troubles. We are traveling in July to find a home on the west coast of Calabria. It will not be new, but not something for us to restore. I did not follow why your taxes came to 12000 more than you thought. Can you please give me some input on that? We do not wish to get ripped off; we will only have 20 days total there. Thank you.
MaryAnn

[Goingtoitalia]

Hi Lynda,
I am sorry to hear about you being under the weather the first days of home ownership Not fun.
Welcome to world of home ownership in Ofena. I don't know if Gianni told you about my estimate from one of the bidders to refurbish my house, but I almost closed the doors and went to Portofino to drink and forget about such making such a terrible decision. Three and a half times the purchase price with average materials and no doors or windows! The electrician seems nice and everything is simple and does not phase him, (everybody else charges a fortune and pretends like it is the first time that they have seem this magical thing called electricity, so we must charge a lot, funny as I am a member of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers! And everything is already wired in the house, lights, sockets etc.), my plumber might be the same one, but he is good. He wanted to do things his way, but his way was better and offered smart suggestions. I ended up liking him a lot. And his prices compared favorably. My builder too talked me out of using a particular tile that I quite fancied. Modern and for interior/exterior/business, "Not for the inside, frost proof!" But after staying in Carrufo all tile should be frost proof! But he offered the tile he used in his house instead, a much different look, old world. Which probably is more fitting in the end as well as characteristic. The builder comes highly recommended and he is proud of his work, which delights me, so I have faith that he will do a good job for me, plus he seems to be an artist! As long as I did not wind up with those glossy grandmother tiles I will be fine. Every time that I was shown a house, even if the bath worked perfectly, OH!, you need a new bath only to be shown that they would remove old hideous tile to replace with something even more offensive!
Yeah, I was hoping to paint, replace some light fixtures and tile, wait a while for on the windows and doors and be done, but that went out the window! Back in the US working hard to pay for everything! But, my place makes me smile, even as Gianni says, "it is not a proper house, no big square rooms!" I like my little tree house
When are you planning on moving to Italy full time?
Bruce

[Goingtoitalia]

Hi MaryAnn sorry to jump in, but taxes are a bother in Italy. I bought a small place in Ofena and they did not amount to much. They are based on castrel value which is much lower than purchase price, but they seem to be very subject to the whim of the local authorities. So if you buy a house for 20,000 euros you will be taxed on 7 percent of value (non-resident), which maybe up to the 20,000 value, but most likely a half to nowadays 3/4 of purchase price, times are tough and the communes are hurting for euros....In the US you know what those costs will be up front, in Italy they might be determined a day or two in advance with you not knowing until you sign the contract!!!! It is a gamble, but you know that they will most likely not be over the purchase price 99% sure. Plan for the worst, hope for the best. You can always put the extra euros in the bank for your restoration. Good luck in Calabria finding your dream escape, should be nice as the beaches are pretty nice! Calabria is getting a lot of play on TV for vistors and tourism. better hurry!

[maryann]

Originally Posted by Goingtoitalia

Hi Lynda,
I am sorry to hear about you being under the weather the first days of home ownership Not fun.
Welcome to world of home ownership in Ofena. I don't know if Gianni told you about my estimate from one of the bidders to refurbish my house, but I almost closed the doors and went to Portofino to drink and forget about such making such a terrible decision. Three and a half times the purchase price with average materials and no doors or windows! The electrician seems nice and everything is simple and does not phase him, (everybody else charges a fortune and pretends like it is the first time that they have seem this magical thing called electricity, so we must charge a lot, funny as I am a member of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers! And everything is already wired in the house, lights, sockets etc.), my plumber might be the same one, but he is good. He wanted to do things his way, but his way was better and offered smart suggestions. I ended up liking him a lot. And his prices compared favorably. My builder too talked me out of using a particular tile that I quite fancied. Modern and for interior/exterior/business, "Not for the inside, frost proof!" But after staying in Carrufo all tile should be frost proof! But he offered the tile he used in his house instead, a much different look, old world. Which probably is more fitting in the end as well as characteristic. The builder comes highly recommended and he is proud of his work, which delights me, so I have faith that he will do a good job for me, plus he seems to be an artist! As long as I did not wind up with those glossy grandmother tiles I will be fine. Every time that I was shown a house, even if the bath worked perfectly, OH!, you need a new bath only to be shown that they would remove old hideous tile to replace with something even more offensive!
Yeah, I was hoping to paint, replace some light fixtures and tile, wait a while for on the windows and doors and be done, but that went out the window! Back in the US working hard to pay for everything! But, my place makes me smile, even as Gianni says, "it is not a proper house, no big square rooms!" I like my little tree house
When are you planning on moving to Italy full time?
Bruce

Hi, Bruce, my name is MaryAnn. My husband and I are planning to move to Italy full time. We are house hunting and viewing in July in the region of Calabria. Do you live there full time, in Abruzzo? How do you like it? Do you think you need a lawyer to purchase a home? I had been told by a realtor that the realtor does exactly everything the lawyer does.
Thanks.
MaryAnn
MaryAnn

[Goingtoitalia]

Hi MaryAnn,
After doing one home purchase through an agency. This is what I learned; it is better to find a local that you feel comfortable with, ie: stay at a real B&B, 4 rooms or less that speaks English. They will know all the places for sale in the neighborhood. Most likely they will try to find you a place. The price of the house will not only be cheaper, but you will not pay agency fees, at least a minimum 4,000 euros! All real estate sales, legitimate are done through a notary, every third one is reviewed by the government, so you are very protected as no notary wants to loose a great high paying job. That is the way I will do it next time!
If you do go through an agency, chose one who has had there company for a long time. I chose House Around Italy simply because they were still around while others seemed to go out of business every month or so. The purchase went fine, everything that they said would happen did! If you like feeling comfortable every step of the way, it might be worth it to you.
Remember, everything will cost more to restore than a real estate agent will say! If they say 1,200 euros for something plan on 3-4,000 euros. I did that in my estimating and I was close. Remember that they are not the contractor!
Something else that learned the hard way, buy a house that is finished, it may not be to your taste, but it is easier to replace tile and paint than put in radiators and electric! Barry, got the deal of a lifetime in Carrufo. A wonderful completed house for the less than the price of a remodel, do your research and you might be able to do the same. I have built homes in the US as well as offices, construction on a rustico is not like anything else! If you have nothing but time you can learn or better yet hire day workers that know what they are doing. It costs so much less that way. A hundred euros a day for a skilled painter, beats trying to figure out water to paint mixtures, 50% at first, then 30% then ....Who wants their 100 euros worth of paint to peel off the wall? Remember everybody paints everything white for a reason, it is dramatically cheaper! Same with an electrician, if you can be there to watch and help, ie; go to the store, buy more wire, buy an electric box, anything to help them keep moving forward...I also learned forget what you do at home for me the US and do it the Italian way. It costs less and it works!
Ciao,
Bruce

[maryann]

Originally Posted by Goingtoitalia

Hi MaryAnn,
After doing one home purchase through an agency. This is what I learned; it is better to find a local that you feel comfortable with, ie: stay at a real B&B, 4 rooms or less that speaks English. They will know all the places for sale in the neighborhood. Most likely they will try to find you a place. The price of the house will not only be cheaper, but you will not pay agency fees, at least a minimum 4,000 euros! All real estate sales, legitimate are done through a notary, every third one is reviewed by the government, so you are very protected as no notary wants to loose a great high paying job. That is the way I will do it next time!
If you do go through an agency, chose one who has had there company for a long time. I chose House Around Italy simply because they were still around while others seemed to go out of business every month or so. The purchase went fine, everything that they said would happen did! If you like feeling comfortable every step of the way, it might be worth it to you.
Remember, everything will cost more to restore than a real estate agent will say! If they say 1,200 euros for something plan on 3-4,000 euros. I did that in my estimating and I was close. Remember that they are not the contractor!
Something else that learned the hard way, buy a house that is finished, it may not be to your taste, but it is easier to replace tile and paint than put in radiators and electric! Barry, got the deal of a lifetime in Carrufo. A wonderful completed house for the less than the price of a remodel, do your research and you might be able to do the same. I have built homes in the US as well as offices, construction on a rustico is not like anything else! If you have nothing but time you can learn or better yet hire day workers that know what they are doing. It costs so much less that way. A hundred euros a day for a skilled painter, beats trying to figure out water to paint mixtures, 50% at first, then 30% then ....Who wants their 100 euros worth of paint to peel off the wall? Remember everybody paints everything white for a reason, it is dramatically cheaper! Same with an electrician, if you can be there to watch and help, ie; go to the store, buy more wire, buy an electric box, anything to help them keep moving forward...I also learned forget what you do at home for me the US and do it the Italian way. It costs less and it works!
Ciao,
Bruce

Hi, Bruce,
Thank you so much for your prompt answer. I enjoyed reading it very much. We live in NY State about 2 hours north of NY City, near Newburgh, NY.
So, do you live in Italy all year? When we were there last July, I agree, it was amazing who knew who was selling a home, amazing. I speak Italian, am Italian, born here, but they were helpful even though my Sicilian was far from perfect. I did get my points across.
Bruce, is a lawyer needed?
We were already there and made some connections and I pray I find a place in the 20 days we are there because it costs to go back. We have 2 dogs and it costs to have them cared for. So, if I buy from a private person, doesn't one encounter problems, though? As far as liens on the house, even if you buy privately, doesn't the notary take care of searches and all those matters?
I am 59, hubby, 62, and I do want a home not needing work. I donot mind small things, but not restructuring, etc.
Thank you. Looking forward to more chatting,
MaryAnn

[Goingtoitalia]

Hi MaryAnn,
If you go through an agency I would say no! How many cooks do you want in the kitchen? If your budget is $300,000 euros or more, I might be tempted to use a lawyer as well. But if it is around $100,000 or so I would not.
I do not live there yet! I am 48, single and live in Westwood CA. I am just tired of the rat race here! Trying to figure out an exit strategy while America is still standing. Then I have to learn to speak Italian too!
Prices seem to be great in Calabria. The real estate market in Italy is pretty stable compared to Spain, who authorized 4 million new builds, one million not completed or occupied now. The prices are dropping a little as not as many English people are buying with the pound in such bad shape.I look forward to seeing what you get!
I am trying to convince my Sister and Brother-in-law (Italian ) to move to Italy, they like the Sorrento area and so do I But they have two big dogs that they would like to bring back and forth between Italy and the US, they are not sure of the laws. Can anyone help with that question????
Bruce

[maryann]

Originally Posted by Goingtoitalia

Hi MaryAnn,
If you go through an agency I would say no! How many cooks do you want in the kitchen? If your budget is $300,000 euros or more, I might be tempted to use a lawyer as well. But if it is around $100,000 or so I would not.
I do not live there yet! I am 48, single and live in Westwood CA. I am just tired of the rat race here! Trying to figure out an exit strategy while America is still standing. Then I have to learn to speak Italian too!
Prices seem to be great in Calabria. The real estate market in Italy is pretty stable compared to Spain, who authorized 4 million new builds, one million not completed or occupied now. The prices are dropping a little as not as many English people are buying with the pound in such bad shape.I look forward to seeing what you get!
I am trying to convince my Sister and Brother-in-law (Italian ) to move to Italy, they like the Sorrento area and so do I But they have two big dogs that they would like to bring back and forth between Italy and the US, they are not sure of the laws. Can anyone help with that question????
Bruce

Hi, Bruce, thank you, and yes, it definitely like the $100000. I am glad to hear your thoughts on the property market in Calabria.
We also have 2 big dogs,my honeys and they will be coming there, olf course, when we move. To my knowledge, Italy will permit it. It costs $160 per dog on Eurofly airlines.
I wish them luck. Oh, beautiful Sorrento; how I would love to be able to afford it. very costly.
MaryAnn