Gaaah!! any help with tenants' rights/ landlord's obligations?

[bassanese]

Hello all,

We have been living and working in Northern Italy for 18months now, and decided to move house i.e. rent a new property. So, we found a good house, agreed a price (using an agent), set a date, signed a contract (including paying a 3month deposit and agency fee, as per usual here)...then, we discover that (perhaps as it is a new house) it has no gas meter and no water meter...

My question is this; surely it is not "fit for use/habitation" in this condition: the pressure is on as we agreed the moving date (and subsequently our moving OUT date of our current home) and as it stands we are nowhere near being able to move in - in approximately three weeks!! also, is it our obligation to pay for these meters to be fitted? i think not but i need some well-versed support in this - any ideas knowledgeable ex-pats?!!

we would really appreciate any point-of-view!! thanks in advance, C.

[Giacomina]

My experience is vast in this area. Having lived in Italy for 6 years total and rented and moved many times, you won't find any help in the form of an agency or board for renters. The unexpected happens. By that I mean that where there should be hot water, there is none. An apartment that is for rent has no water hooked up or gas, no heating. Important features for the basics are quite often missing or in bad shape or completely un useable.

Usually things that are said to be done in three weeks can take up to three months especially at this time of year because most people in Italy take July and August off and all pack up to go to the beaches or the mountains with their neighbors and families. There will be hardly anyone left in towns to do even the ordinary things.

I'm sorry this sounds so negative, but its been my experience that these things regularly occur with us stranieri. If you have paid all this rent already all I can think of is to let your current propriator know what has happened and try to get them to agree to let you stay put until things are hooked up in your new accomodation. When water, gas and electric is in your future apartment, then move in. Definately don't pay for the meters.

We usually run into propriators that want us to rent for a few months so that they can afford to pay for updating later, promises such as air conditioning, or heating, or a hot water heater for the kitchen sink ( actual experiences here), but likely that won't be done easily. If that is the case you must argue that you paid three months in advance (something I have never had to do in all my years in Italy, by the way) and so point out that they can afford to put the meters in. Although I don't understand what meters have to do with it, unless they are not going to hook up the utilities and are stalling with an excuse about the meters perhaps. Arguing sometimes helps, its almost expected by Italians, you must have heard them arguing among themselves?

I don't understand about the meter unless this is a new built home? Usually proprietors just keep the heat, electric, water bills in their own names and you pay whatever they are less what the last renter left behind (be careful on those first bills).

I think your main worry is the timing. This is just not a good time of year to have things pending as I wrote earlier. If you can have the utillities without the meter, ok, just go ahead with your move, otherwise you will need to make arrangements with your current situation to extend the stay there.

If all this leads you to be wary of your future landlord, that is good. I don't know how to advise you to get your money back though. We once pulled out and we couldn't get a cent out of the proprietors, she claimed to need all our damage deposit for new adverts to rent her flat and the cost to phone the gas and electric company. It was only a few days after that we changed our plans and I dont' believe she suffered financially at all as I have never heard of a gas or electric hook up being done within a few days on Italian soil. Nevertheless, we had no recourse for getting our deposit back.

As I mentioned above a direct approach is often the best. Explain how you feel this is unfair and you are grieved and full of anxiety that you will have no utilities upon arriving, its hot and showers will be needed, if you have children, all the better, plead about how your children can;t go without bathing etc. etc. That should work. Given a good argument Italians will sometimes back down and accomodate you. They might even let you stay at a relatives until the work necessary can be done on the house.

[bassanese]

thanks for this lengthy reply!

yes, the house is new built - hence problems we haven't encountered renting here before (ie. meters)...we are actually making a little, albeit slow, progress, but thank you anyway.

my main issue is that the house won't be ready (ie. no meters) and although we have friends we can stay with here and a flat at my husband's place of work available, why should we pay rent for a property that isn't fit for purpose? the contract goes both ways - ie. we pay for a house we can live in, nothing less!

3months as a deposit is normal in this area - i t is an expensive place so i guess it has become normal over time.

we've come to the conclusion that as this is a first time rental for our landlord (he builds and normally sells houses but i suppose as a result of the slow market is now trying rental) he was unaware of his obligations - he's paying for the meters anyway and I try not to get hung up on the whole "it's because we're stranieri!"issue - that way madness lies!! plenty of shifty landlords in the UK, too, regardless of your nationality so I wouldn't cast the first stone on that front!

thanks for getting back to me though, i really appreciate it!

[Giacomina]

Oh, sorry, guess I didn't read your initial thread carefully enough.

Well, best of luck!

I hadn't heard that phrase before, "a property that isn't fit for purpose?"

It sounds like something a lawyer should be able to figure out though. But if you have friends and you both have co workers, someone should be able to help sort it out for you. For us we couldn't bear the expense of loosing, the anxiety, n or do we have people to give us rooms for several months, any way perhaps things are not as desperate as they seemed in your initial thread.

IMO its a kind of madness to deny that foreigners in many countries in Europe, in my experience, in Italy, are not treated with the respect that natives are. If you love Italy then you can easily put up with the extra expense and anxiety this can cause, but to deny these events is probably not the answer, causes ulcers and stuff I think, and you may begin to blame the system etc. when a lot of the time its just plain old predjudice and a sense that foreigners, immigrants etc. are seen to not have the same basic human needs that the natives have, or that we should just be able to tough it out without the normal things. I'm not talking luxuries here like screens, air conditioning etc. just the basics.

I must like writing long responses!
Ciao for now gal, take care!

[NickZ]

Lack of meters doesn't mean much.

The meters won't be fitted unless there is a contract setup with the provider. The provider will tend to charge a monthly meter fee.

Of course many houses have propane so fitting a gas meter would be strange.

Talk to the water company. I managed to get a water meter installed next day but of course it depends on the local company.

[Paul & Lou]

Hi

I know this has nothing to do with property issues but I have just moved to Bassano with my wife and 2 yr old daughter and we are looking for kids clubs or just to meet up with local expats to find out whats on around the town. Any ideas??

Paul