The Positives & Negatives of living in Israel?

[sensualspirit]

So I've been hearing from almost anyone I talk to that living in Israel is hard.

While I would have used those words years ago since it's such a modern country, I'm not quite sure what the expats are referring to.

Besides maybe being afraid of terrorists, bombers, etc., in your opinion, what are the pros & cons of living in Israel?

I hope a lot of people reply, it doesn't seem there's very much response on this forum.

Thank you


Michelle

[bustonowhere]

I am very new to this forum, not very new to the country (my family came here when I was 6, I've been here for 22 years), but a lot of the people around me daily are expats. I'll allow myself to reply.

I don't think that the security threats are what bothers most Israelis or expats. Questionable means aside, Israel has been as secure as a lot of other European cities for years now. In fact, every major city in the world had to deal with terrorist threats...

But in short, I'd say that what's difficult here is the Israelis and their way of going about things. There is a directness that sometime becomes rudeness. It's extremely unimaginable to people coming from countries where the service industry actually gives good service. Here you may see people cutting in line, being rude to a client, not bothering to answer a question... a bunch of these. Israelis going abroad are sometimes shocked: "Everyone is so nice here!".

Also - non-Jewish people may feel a bit of attention that can also sometimes be rude. An ex-girlfriend who was French and atheist was asked whether she's Jewish several times a week, then "so what are you doing here?". This was out of curiousity, not in a blaming way, but obviously she'd much rather not deal with this.

I'd say that if you work very hard on the language, and immerse yourself in social circles with Israelis - it makes things easier. But you should always have someone to ask advice from, preferably an Israeli that knows his way around the systems.

Hope that gives some insight. I'm sure other people will give better answers.

[sensualspirit]

Yes I know Israelis can be very rude. Do expats become like that or do they maintain their civilness?

If you've been there since you were 6, how did you know things were different outside Israel? Traveling?

How do you handle it when they push, shove, don't apologize etc.?

I have to say that people in North America ignore all the time. IMO it's a sign of disrespect, immaturity & insecurity. The only time I ignore is if someone is harassing me & I've already told them to stop otherwise it's not within my nature to hurt someone & ignoring is abuse IMO.

I would think that Israelis wouldn't ignore if they are so straightforward. Then again I had an aunt that ignored her brother for 11 years b/c of a fight. Again, to me that shows immaturity. I know Israelis who feel shunned in any way will never speak to that person again. I assume working things out like mature adults is beyond most of their comprehension, is that fair to say?

Again, I come across people like this all the time here too, but it's probably less so. If someone came to someone & apologized or tried to work things out, most times a North American wouldn't be so stubborn to say, "Nope, I'm still angry at you, forget it."

Where do you live that there are expats around all the time?

Thank you for answering


Michelle

[bustonowhere]

First of all, we're speaking in very broad general terms here - I'm sure some people could get offended easily. I'm describing some behaviors that I encounter - I'm not saying that is what you will see all the time. But when you do, it's not unimaginable to the people around you.

Also - I'm talking about the behavior in public spheres - not in personal relations. In personal relations people are very warm. When they don't know you, (like on a train station) it depends on the person and the situation. And also - I think the service industry lacks a lot of norms and respect around here.

I live in Tel-Aviv and I spend most of my time sitting in Cafe Xoho which is a coffee shop with more English spoken than Hebrew. I've been a regular there for the last year and a half.

My knowledge of other people's cultures comes from being from a Russian cultures, and yes, traveling.

Originally Posted by sensualspirit

Yes I know Israelis can be very rude. Do expats become like that or do they maintain their civilness?

If you've been there since you were 6, how did you know things were different outside Israel? Traveling?

How do you handle it when they push, shove, don't apologize etc.?

I have to say that people in North America ignore all the time. IMO it's a sign of disrespect, immaturity & insecurity. The only time I ignore is if someone is harassing me & I've already told them to stop otherwise it's not within my nature to hurt someone & ignoring is abuse IMO.

I would think that Israelis wouldn't ignore if they are so straightforward. Then again I had an aunt that ignored her brother for 11 years b/c of a fight. Again, to me that shows immaturity. I know Israelis who feel shunned in any way will never speak to that person again. I assume working things out like mature adults is beyond most of their comprehension, is that fair to say?

Again, I come across people like this all the time here too, but it's probably less so. If someone came to someone & apologized or tried to work things out, most times a North American wouldn't be so stubborn to say, "Nope, I'm still angry at you, forget it."

Where do you live that there are expats around all the time?

Thank you for answering


Michelle

[sensualspirit]

Yes I know Israelis can be very loving people.

If you are saying that the behavior I mentioned is only that of a small percentage, then please let me know, as I only have my experiences to go off of. I haven't been back since 1994 & I have heard the same abrasive description of the personality from pretty much everyone, so I don't see how it could be a small percentage. But maybe I'm wrong.

I don't understand why people get upset by reality. It is what it is & speaking about it out loud shouldn't upset people who are honest. I'm here to understand the full picture, not paint things in a politically correct way.

Again, there are always exceptions to every generalization, but most times things are dead on accurate if only people were willing to be honest.

And I am not here to put anyone down as that's not my style, I'm researching to see if I could handle it.


Michelle

[isradutch]

I think that the honest answer is that the population is quite split into different types of people.
There is no one Israeli typecast...
Yes...Israelis are direct but so are Dutch (I live in Holland and Dutch are not less direct)
Some of them can be rude depending on the situation - for example when you subject Israelis to a "non fun" environment such as standing in line for tickets to a soccer game.
However, I believe that you generally tend to filter out your friends and those that become your friends will be REAL non discriminating friends which is in my opinion something you rarely can find in Northern European countries such as the Netherlands.
Service in Israel is not bad at all (used to be crap but has improved dramatically to the point that it runs circles around most European service which by all means is bad).
The issue about Israel is the contrasts which are certainly there.

[sensualspirit]

Thank you for your opinion.

What contrasts are you referring to? The Ashkanazim vs. the Sepharadim?

I can't believe that war still exists after ALL these years.

So do Israelis put up with poor customer service or do they boycott companies who don't provide it or complain until it's fixed?

[isradutch]

The contrasts between people who behave in an extremely well mannered way and those that remind you of hotheaded rednecks.
The Ashkenazim vs sefaradim issue exist mainly in the very religious sector.
85% of people couldn't care less about this issue.

As far as customer service goes - Israelis demand good customer service and typically they also get good service (apart from hospitals where doctors are good but extremely arrogant, and government related services which could have higher service standards)

If I compare the customer service in the Netherlands, Belgium, France in shops, restaurants, cafes, hotels to the one in Israel - then hands down Israeli customer service wins.
As far as customer service in hospitals, municipalities etc... Netherlands wins big time.

[sensualspirit]

Oh, so you are saying that there are well mannered Israelis then? Or are you talking about people who made Aliya?

I was referring to Sabras thru & thru.

It's not just the manners, it's the "I am going to tell you what to do b/c I want to run your life since I know more than you & you have no right to run your own life." attitude.

LOL, I remember one guy stating that when he moved to Israel, all the mothers in the park would tell him how to raise his child.

That's not really an Israeli trait, moreso a Jewish one & one I don't like.

I stopped allowing this kind of behavior from people a long time ago. I'm my own person & I'll do whatever I want with my life whether you agree with it or not.

Didn't know about the doctors. That's interesting.

How are the dentists there?

Thanks & Happy New Year


Michal

[Jenny Bee]

Originally Posted by bustonowhere

First of all, we're speaking in very broad general terms here - I'm sure some people could get offended easily. I'm describing some behaviors that I encounter - I'm not saying that is what you will see all the time. But when you do, it's not unimaginable to the people around you.

Also - I'm talking about the behavior in public spheres - not in personal relations. In personal relations people are very warm. When they don't know you, (like on a train station) it depends on the person and the situation. And also - I think the service industry lacks a lot of norms and respect around here.

I live in Tel-Aviv and I spend most of my time sitting in Cafe Xoho which is a coffee shop with more English spoken than Hebrew. I've been a regular there for the last year and a half.

My knowledge of other people's cultures comes from being from a Russian cultures, and yes, traveling.

Heya bustonowhere!
I just read your post and ....I am in Cafe Xoho as well - hiding behind my laptop ;-)
My laptop is a green Dell.....let's chat next time ;-)