French family book, why cant the natural father be in it?

[pushyface]

Hi

I friend just told me he has a child with a french girlfriend over in Spain, they have not decided to get married yet .

So far he registered his passport as the father at the hospital, and they obtained a Spanish Family book.

The girlfriend goes to the french embassy to ask for more details about a registering the child, and she is told the father can not be in that family book due to 2 facts.

1- He was not born in France
2- HE is not married to her yet.

He is about to obtain a British passport through the US, and told them he was born in the UK but lived in Canada and US most of his life, only has a US passport for now but decided to remain in Europe now that they have a kid and want to get married.

The woman at the Embassy told him that until they are married France does not recognize him as the father and will NOT put him in the family book of France, as he lived the Embassy he asks the main desk clerk if they have papers in Spain for Foreigners moving to France, the man told him no but asked what Nationality he was, my friends explained that while he will get married he is about to get a British passport through living relatives, and the clerk said he has the same rights as French Citizens once he is part of any EU country.

I told my friend that it sounds suspicious and wrong to not be in the french family book if he is the natural father of a french woman's child, he is not more french then his child who was born in Spain, he tells me he thinks he should pay lawyer and avoid the headaches of France's US con like beracracy, i was hoping people knew more to avoid all that.

[Bevdeforges]

Apparently the "family book" thing works a bit differently in Spain than it does in France.

The French "Livret de famille" is created when a couple gets married. (Not sure what they do these days with PACS'ed couples, but I don't believe they get a livret de famille.) OTOH, if what your friend is looking for is to be recognized as the child's father, that would normally be done in France as part of the birth record (i.e. birth certificate). But if the mother is registering the child's birth in France, the name of the father should go onto the birth record. (Again, I'm not sure what France does about registering births abroad and what the rules are about transmitting nationality. )

Regardless of whether or not the couple was married at the time, France certainly will recognize your friend as the father if his name is on the child's birth record (in Spain or in France). Your friend should see about registering the child's birth with the US Consulate in Spain.

"A child born out of wedlock to a U.S. citizen father and an alien mother may acquire U.S. citizenship at birth based upon clear and convincing evidence of paternity. The father must have been physically present in the United States for a period (or periods totaling) five years prior to the child’s birth, at least two of which were after the father reached the age of fourteen years." (from the US Consulate website)

When your friend marries his girlfriend, they can get a livret de famille from the Consulate (or from the mairie in France if they get married there).
Cheers,
Bev

[pushyface]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

(Not sure what they do these days with PACS'ed couples,

If you do not mind me asking, what is a PAC couple?

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

But if the mother is registering the child's birth in France, the name of the father should go onto the birth record. (Again, I'm not sure what France does about registering births abroad and what the rules are about transmitting nationality. )

Regardless of whether or not the couple was married at the time, France certainly will recognize your friend as the father if his name is on the child's birth record (in Spain or in France).

The child was born in Spain, the spanish birth certificates in spain now meet EU standards and now come in multi language translations, she got a copy for the French embassy, it does have the fathers name on it.,
But when she had to sign a declaration with her birth certificate they only asked for signature and not the fathers., they did photocopy his passport he says.

She called the town hall where she was born in France and the woman there told her they dont even accept the Spanish birth certificates from Spain at all, they never heard of any EU certificates and if she was not in Spain bt France she would have to pay for translations and wait 6 months from some office to authorize them

Point is his name is still not even on that french declaration as the father which presents the spanish certificates with his name on them, they did copy his brand new 8 month old U.S. passport anyway.

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

Your friend should see about registering the child's birth with the US Consulate in Spain.

Yes he said he was about to until this happened., i think he will ask them what is going on next.

Thanks for your post., i just do not get why the french Embassy only accepted the birth certificate declaration ONLY in her name.

To add to that, France recently changed the way they deal with family books to meet EU standards, apparently they used to have several color books to identify a Single, separate, married or or divorced mother., now they just have one book that is blue to avoid accusations of sexist discrimination, sounds a bit common there.

My friend showed me there book, it is green, the old one, and represents a single mother. , strange?

[Bevdeforges]

Oops, sorry - a PACS is a French form of "civil union" - used to recognize same sex couples and any other sort of couple that doesn't want to get married but wants some legal protections for each other (mainly tax and inheritance related).

I can't tell you anything about how Spain handles birth certificates, but in France there is no update to the mother's (or father's) birth certificate when they have a child. The mother does need to register the child with the French consulate so that the child can have French nationality - but it's only the French parent who does this.

Registering the child with the US Consulate is a good idea in any event, because they will require some "proof" that the child is his. He can then use this certificate (or whatever they give him) when applying for a French livret de famille after they get married so that the child will be entered into the livret for the couple.

>>France recently changed the way they deal with family books to meet EU standards, apparently they used to have several color books to identify a Single, separate, married or or divorced mother., now they just have one book that is blue to avoid accusations of sexist discrimination, sounds a bit common there.<<

I think you mean Spain here, not France. As I mentioned, the livret de famille is issued upon marriage, not on the birth of a child, and documents the marriage/family. It sounds as if Spain must issue their family books to mothers whether or not they are married. In France, if the couple gets divorced and the mother then remarries, there is a new livret de famille and the children from the first marriage don't figure into the second one at all.
Cheers,
Bev

[pushyface]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

Oops, sorry - a PACS is a French form of "civil union" - used to recognize same sex couples and any other sort of couple that doesn't want to get married but wants some legal protections for each other (mainly tax and inheritance related).

I think you mean Spain here, not France. As I mentioned, the livret de famille is issued upon marriage, not on the birth of a child, and documents the marriage/family. It sounds as if Spain must issue their family books to mothers whether or not they are married. In France, if the couple gets divorced and the mother then remarries, there is a new livret de famille and the children from the first marriage don't figure into the second one at all.
Cheers,
Bev

No seriously, France has a new livret, its blue, the woman at the embassy explained it is new but she will use a old green one since my friends did not get married yet., and because my friend is not a EU national as of yet as well but will be in a month or 2 (he will get a UK passport).

She said normally she would give a blue one but she insisted that they will get t when they get married anyway.,

My friends want the blue livret after the woman explained there option since it presents the natural parents of a child married or not, she told my friends that they get another livret when they get married anyway and the green one will do just fine for now until then since he does not have a EU ID for a few months.

Spain puts the natural parents in there books, and the spanish authorities told my friends that it is normal even if the father is not part of the EU.


And it is new that all EU (not only Spain) should provide birth certificates that meet the requirements of other EU nationals and the countries of there nativity., France is also supposed to do this now.,

Spain never had several family books signifying the marital status of a mother., only France., and the lady at the french consulate stated that depending on which town hall you go to you may run into old school rules regardless of EU standards and new rules, its the problem in France still.

My friends did ask in france and they insisted to return to spain and get a livret there, then return to france, send a copy with birth certificates to some office and have them all translated again., pay a fee, wait for 6 months., later if you marry you make a new one again., and this was incorrect according to the Consulate in Spain who says the correct information is listed on a website CLEARLY.

[giantpanda]

Hi!

See heading 2:

Identification - Pièces d'état civil et d'identité recevables - Livret de famille

It should be possible.

Yours,

pomhorn

[Bevdeforges]

As Giant Panda has indicated, there is a livret de famille where the natural parents can be documented - though I don't understand your concerns about your friend's nationality. On our livret de famille, they document all the details about my parents, myself and even my ex-husband, none of whom were French nationals or even EU nationals at the time the livret was done. I did have to provide a birth certificate, duly translated (and they got the details on my ex from the divorce papers I also had to have officially translated).
Cheers,
Bev