Income question

[Rexor]

Hi all,

My wife and I are US citizens contemplating a move to France. We have a 2-year-old daughter. We're still investigating the feasibility of it, and have no illusions that it will be even remotely simple. Here's the deal: We would like to purchase a home, a process that I'm sure is rather difficult for Americans, but my greater concern is income. I'm a writer, so I wouldn't be seeking a job, but is $60,000 to $70,000 a year sufficient to live in France after conversion to Euros? I know cost of living varies widely in France, but we would be seeking something in the suburbs/countryside/small towns.

Cheers in advance,
Rexor

Edit: Sorry, that's 60k - 70k gross, not net.

[Bevdeforges]

Hi, and welcome to the forum.

You should have little or no problem living on $60-70K per year in France - depending of course on your lifestyle - but loads of people live here on considerably less. The one catch is that you will be dependent on the exchange rates, depending on what the dollar does next.

Now, I'm not entirely sure what you're asking with regard to purchasing a house. If you're legally living in France (and THAT's the tough part), it should be no more difficult for you to buy a house than for anyone else. Just be aware that in France you don't have all the fancy financing options you (used to?) have in the US. You need a healthy down payment and the confidence of your bank to get a mortgage. Your US credit rating doesn't carry over and they won't want to see your tax returns (US or French) to verify your income.

Give a shout as other questions come up.
Cheers,
Bev

[giantpanda]

Edit: Sorry, that's 60k - 70k gross, not net.[/quote]

Hi!

Hope you are not considering relocation to restart a life. This does not not necessarily work.

Difficult problem in France would be getting work, and all the more so for non-EC nationals.

Have a look at some of the red tape - you can also get information in Americain at a US French Consulate.

Etrangers en France - Service-public.fr


With your income, that should be no problem , as long as you keep away from Paris of very large cities, because house or rental prices can be very high.

To enjoy France, your French knowledge and that of your wife should be reasonable.

Yours,

giantpanda

PS. Once you are a French resident, you would be need also to make a French Tax return ( declaring your world income, including the taxes paid elsewhere ) which does not necessarily meen you would have to pay income tax in France.

[Rexor]

Giantpanda, thanks for the reply. But why else would we be moving to France if not to restart a life? We're not being naive, just curious. And I find that such ventures work out much better in the end if preparedness is leavened with a sense of adventure.

As I stated in my first post, we are not looking for jobs in France--our income is dependent on royalties that I receive in the US. This, however, seems like a catch-22: without getting a job first, which we don't even need in the first place, acquiring a long-term visa seems difficult if not impossible. In other words, don't any American writers/artists relocate to France??? Why wouldn't France want citizens who come with money without taking local jobs? Our situation seems to have fallen between the cracks, as it were, and our local consulate isn't exactly responsive.

As for our French, it is improving weekly. We wouldn't think of making a move to France without mastering the language first.

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by Rexor

This, however, seems like a catch-22: without getting a job first, which we don't even need in the first place, acquiring a long-term visa seems difficult if not impossible. In other words, don't any American writers/artists relocate to France??? Why wouldn't France want citizens who come with money without taking local jobs? Our situation seems to have fallen between the cracks, as it were, and our local consulate isn't exactly responsive.

The problem with your situation is that as writers working in France you ought to be signed up with the writers' and artists' "syndicat" (sounds awful, doesn't it? ) to pay in your share of cotisations (social insurances). It's actually a better deal for those in the artistic professions (you get health and retirement coverage - not cheap, but not nearly as expensive as in the US).

You may not be taking local jobs - but you are (or could be) shirking your "social" responsibility to contribute to the common welfare of your fellow artists. Never mind how much more difficult it is for the tax folks to check up on your income tax responsibility.
Cheers,
Bev

[Rexor]

Bevdeforges,

Wow, this is food for thought. I always assumed that we would be paying French taxes right from the beginning, we have no problem with that--and you're right, the cost of our healthcare here in the states is positively stupefying, especially because we're self-employed. This was one of the reasons we started looking into moving in the first place. Middle-class life in America for those who go out on their own is under serious attack.

My confusion is over how to convince the French authorities to allow us to take up residence if I'm not interested in taking a job in their country. I read elsewhere that they don't care about my previous tax returns, so I couldn't even prove to them that I have an income! My wife is convinced that there are Americans who "retire" to France legally, and that we would essentially be doing the same, even though we're only forty. But no amount of research has been able to verify this, and I know the French system is very specific on points such as this.

Anyway, thanks so much for the replies, this has been quite helpful.

[Bevdeforges]

As you say, it is definitely possible to retire to France. Though if you do that, you then have to provide your own health insurance (usually through some sort of expat policy - and those can be expensive).

You may want to contact AARO (Association of Americans Resident Overseas) AARO - Association of Americans Resident Overseas - Home and/or the ACA (American Citizens Abroad) ACA American Citizens Abroad AARO offers expat insurance to its members, and both associations have information about tax and other matters of interest to US citizens living abroad. There are lots of retired Americans in AARO and maybe someone there can help. (Just be aware that most associations in France are on summer holidays - you may not be able to contact them until September.)
Cheers,
Bev

[Rexor]

Merci. I'll look into those.

[giantpanda]

Originally Posted by Rexor

Bevdeforges,



My confusion is over how to convince the French authorities to allow us to take up residence if I'm not interested in taking a job in their country. I read elsewhere that they don't care about my previous tax returns, so I couldn't even prove to them that I have an income! My wife is convinced that there are Americans who "retire" to France legally, and that we would essentially be doing the same, even though we're only forty.l.

Hi!

If you settle in France, and since you would not be working:

-You would be required to prove that your family has for each Member a private Health Insurance equivalent to the French basic CMU, since you would not qualify. That can costs a minimum of Euro 3400 per person/per year ( with top up). ( I mention it principally for others, because it seems that this would be no problem for you).

- Further you would be require to prove that your have regular income to support your family or the necessary capital.

France is not longer ready to take up people*, who would be dependant on the French Social Security.

* One could say that there is a certain contradiction here, because there are many exceptions. But none the less it is in the texts,and you would be asked that.

Yours,

giantpanda

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by Rexor

My confusion is over how to convince the French authorities to allow us to take up residence if I'm not interested in taking a job in their country. I read elsewhere that they don't care about my previous tax returns, so I couldn't even prove to them that I have an income!

Just thought of something when I saw Giant Panda quote back this same section...

Just because the French don't take back tax returns as proof of income doesn't mean you can't prove that you have income. It may take a bit of creativity (which is always a risk when dealing with fonctionnaires ) but perhaps your publisher could provide a letter (which would have to translated, no doubt) attesting to the ongoing level of your royalties, or something like that.

If you continue to write while in France, I know the US considers the royalties received on works actually written and researched in France (or anywhere overseas) to fall under the "earned income" category and thus subject to the overseas earned income exclusion. I assumes that means that royalties on works written while resident in France would be taxable in France (which should also subject you to the social charges).

Not sure how the US would regard royalties you receive while resident in France on works actually written in the US, though I suspect the French would claim dibs on taxing those.

I think the main problem is that you don't "fit" a proper pigeonhole for bureaucratic purposes. But, where there's a will there's a way...
Cheers,
Bev