working remotely (telecommuting) from France

shayne · #1 (**permalink**) 14th July 2008, 07:31 PM

Greetings,

Is telecommuting for a position in the U.S. from France considered paid activity. I suppose it's pretty obvious that it is, but I was hoping that there was a way I could telecommute to my position in the U.S. while living in France on a long-stay visa.

I'm exploring other avenues that will allow me to move, but this would be the simplest for me. My company is giving me a hard time about moving to France because of the French labor laws, though they are willing to let me work remotely from there.

I guess my question is, is there a way I can obtain a long term visa, avoiding the work visa, by telecommuting to my company in the US. It gets sticky because the company is global, and we do have a physical presence in France. My position though, is in New York, with no connection to the French offices - I would be working out of my apartment rather than the offices there.

giantpanda · #2 (**permalink**) 15th July 2008, 08:06 AM

Hi!

Telecommuting from France would require that either:

-your employer registers you in France, and pays social security contributions for you . Since your company is global, there is possibly a solution here.(at least over : portage)

- registering as a " travailleur indépendant ", which implies paying URSSAF ( unfortunately the fees are rather penalising if you have low turnover).

But the first hurdle, would be to be able to come to France to stay:

Etrangers en France - Service-public.fr

which also implies you would have to show a private health insurance equivalent to the French CMU ( if you do not work ).

As soon as you work in France you are then considered as a French fiscal resident, and would have to declare yearly your world income ( and possibly taxes you pay elsewhere ).

Yours,

giantpanda

PS. Forget the long term visa!

Normally if your company has an afiliate in France, they can help you.

Bevdeforges · #3 (**permalink**) 15th July 2008, 01:32 PM

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Believe me, you're hardly the first to attempt to go the telecommuting route. Most, though, try to use telecommuting as a way to avoid paying French cotisations (social charges) while already here on a non-working visa. (I know a few trailing spouses who have gotten away with it for the duration of their spouse's French assignment - but not more than a year or two.)

I doubt you'll be able to get a work visa the way you describe your current job set-up. The fact of your employer having a French presence means that you would have to be on the French payroll and signed up for all the various social insurances. And that runs the employer an additional 40% (roughly) of your salary plus having to keep to the French labor laws (regarding control over your working hours, vacation time, etc. etc).

Back when I came to France (from Germany), the consulate wouldn't even give out the forms to apply for a long-stay visa unless you could produce a job offer letter from a French employer. I'm afraid telecommuting isn't going to work for you.
Cheers,
Bev

shayne · #4 (**permalink**) 15th July 2008, 02:12 PM

Thanks for the information. I thought the situation would be something like this. I'll need to have a look at être travailleur indépendant.. If not, it's back to the drawing board I guess.

Bevdeforges · #5 (**permalink**) 15th July 2008, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shayne

Thanks for the information. I thought the situation would be something like this. I'll need to have a look at être travailleur indépendant.. If not, it's back to the drawing board I guess.

As far as I know, there is no way to get a long-stay visa as a travailleur indépendant - unless you go for a "carte commerçante" which involves setting up a business. Not sure, but I think you'd have to hire one or more French nationals to make this fly. We looked into it briefly when I was having my immigration problems, but it wasn't really an option in my case.
Cheers,
Bev

jena · #6 (**permalink**) 23rd July 2008, 02:11 AM

We have received a long stay visa from the French consulate. Along with the application was an employment letter from our firm stating that we would continue to be employees, paid in US dollars, and with benefits - as if we were still sitting in our current home office. We do have to return to the US for the company each quarter for 2 weeks, but this is completely separate from the visa. Why can we do this If Shayne can't? Is it because we are a US only company? Or is there something we are missing?

Bevdeforges · #7 (**permalink**) 23rd July 2008, 06:38 AM

Ah jena, the ways and reasons of the French authorities are complex - and frankly there is no telling precisely why your application was accepted and another rejected.

Without knowing more about your case, I would guess that perhaps the "benefits" you speak of include health insurance that meets the French requirements, and that perhaps there is an indication (or promise) that your "long stay" will be limited to 5 years or less. (There is, or used to be, a way to remain on US benefit plans if you were on a time-limited assignment of 5 years or less.) It could also have something to do with the presence (or absence) of an established French office or the existence of a real "exchange" (i.e. with someone from France working in the US for the same company).

If shayne's company is willing to give him an employment letter (in French) outlining the terms under which he'll be working, perhaps he can be granted a visa - but it's hard to tell until he tries, and it doesn't sound like his company is keen to do this.
Cheers,
Bev

giantpanda · #8 (**permalink**) 23rd July 2008, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jena

We have received a long stay visa from the French consulate.

Hi!

When was this?

Last year there have been majors changes in the rules.

Yours,

giantpanda

jena · #9 (**permalink**) 23rd July 2008, 12:07 PM

(From jena) We applied for our visas on June 4, 2008 at the consulate in Boston, MA and received them back in early July. We are leaving for France on August 6, 2008. So everything I am telling you is VERY recent.

Bevdeforges · #10 (**permalink**) 23rd July 2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jena

(From jena) We applied for our visas on June 4, 2008 at the consulate in Boston, MA and received them back in early July. We are leaving for France on August 6, 2008. So everything I am telling you is VERY recent.

I have heard that the consulate in Boston is particularly good to work with. Other consulates can be more difficult - and there used to be a requirement that you had to apply at the consulate that covers the area you live in in the US.

The other possibility is that your company has some sort of agreement already in place with the French regarding the issuance of visas.

The rules aren't always terribly straight forward.
Cheers,
Bev