Non-EU Citizen and EEA Family Permit from France

[Neelam1982]

Hi all, I was wondering whether someone could please advise me!

I am a UK Citizen, currently living in London and I am a student. My husband is a Pakistani citizen and I heard that he is able to apply for a Schengan Visa for Europe and then get a carte sejour. I would like to know, once he has this Carte sejour, are we able to apply for an EEA Family permit, which would allow him to join me in the UK? How long does he need to have lived in France for, before we can apply? Would the fact that I am a student be a problem? I have another 2 years left before I graduate, but I will possibly be doing my post graduate studies in Paris, which would mean that ill be moving there for a year. Do I have to be living in France, in order for him to live there?

I am looking for ways to avoid going down the UK Spouse Visa route... which is long winded and has silly requirements, which I cannot fulfill being a student. However, this EU thing seems to open up an easier way. So, I was thinking of initially travelling with him to Paris, he can stay there, whilst I visit him once a week in Paris (during my studies in London) and then when I graduate, ill move there to Paris. Or, better still, can he just go to Paris for as long as needed to get the EEA Family Permit and then join me in London, for the remaining two years of my studies?

Thanks in advance

[Bevdeforges]

Back to square one, I think, on this plan.

For your husband to get a carte de séjour here in France, you would have to show that you are resident here and that he is joining you to live in France. Besides the usual round of i.d. he would also have to show proof of your marriage plus your documents proving your residence in France, source of income, etc. Unless you're establishing residence in France, he has no right to live here I'm afraid.
Cheers,
Bev

[Neelam1982]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

Back to square one, I think, on this plan.

For your husband to get a carte de séjour here in France, you would have to show that you are resident here and that he is joining you to live in France. Besides the usual round of i.d. he would also have to show proof of your marriage plus your documents proving your residence in France, source of income, etc. Unless you're establishing residence in France, he has no right to live here I'm afraid.
Cheers,
Bev

Thanks so much, Bev. So, if I go to Paris as a student, to study at a University as I plan to do and consequently Ill be living there - would he be able to join me then, if I can prove that I am resident in Paris? Is there a minimum period for which I need to be resident there for? If I use savings to show that I have money - is there a minimum amount that I should have in my (french) bank account?

thanks

[Neelam1982]

We have been married for 2 years, we got married in Pakistan, and I didnt know about this EU thing or the EEA Family Permit until today. If I had known, I would have done something about it earlier. I just assumed that a UK Spouse Visa was the sole and only route in bringing my husband over - and I can't do that as a student

[Joppa]

Originally Posted by Neelam1982

Hi all, I was wondering whether someone could please advise me!

I am a UK Citizen, currently living in London and I am a student. My husband is a Pakistani citizen and I heard that he is able to apply for a Schengan Visa for Europe and then get a carte sejour. I would like to know, once he has this Carte sejour, are we able to apply for an EEA Family permit, which would allow him to join me in the UK? How long does he need to have lived in France for, before we can apply? Would the fact that I am a student be a problem? I have another 2 years left before I graduate, but I will possibly be doing my post graduate studies in Paris, which would mean that ill be moving there for a year. Do I have to be living in France, in order for him to live there?

I am looking for ways to avoid going down the UK Spouse Visa route... which is long winded and has silly requirements, which I cannot fulfill being a student. However, this EU thing seems to open up an easier way. So, I was thinking of initially travelling with him to Paris, he can stay there, whilst I visit him once a week in Paris (during my studies in London) and then when I graduate, ill move there to Paris. Or, better still, can he just go to Paris for as long as needed to get the EEA Family Permit and then join me in London, for the remaining two years of my studies?

This is a difficult case. To be eligible under Surinder Singh judgement, you both need to live in France for at least 6 months and you need to be exercising your EU economic right, i.e. working or being in self-employment, so being a student doesn't count.
There is another provision under Van der Elst judgement, in which a non-EU national who is working legally for an EU employer in another EU state can perform temporary work in UK for the same company without needing work permit, just a visa issued free.
Your best bet is under Surinder Singh, and you need to be working or in self-employment in another EU country for at least 6 months and living with your husband, which can be after you get your degree and before you do your postgrad work. You can combine it with your postgrad work, provided you'll be earning enough to maintain the both of you.

[Neelam1982]

Thanks so much for this info.... Yes, I came across the name 'Surinder Singh' when I was reading through the EEA Family Permit rules... I don't really know who or what Surinder Singh was, but whatever happened to him, obviously highlights a 'loophole', where we can avoid going thru the complex procedures of a UK Spouse Visa, as well as the ridiculously high application fees and all the other headache that comes with it

I could, at some point go out and teach english for about 6 months or a year, if I can find a good school that pays enough for both of us.... Do you know how many months payslips I need to submit? Also, does my husband currently have freedom to travel to France for visit purposes, on the basis that I am an EU national? I want us to holiday in Paris for a couple of weeks in the summer and according to the schengen visa application form, he has rights of freedom of movement as an EU Spouse, is this right? We can delay the EEA Family Permit loophole and getting his carte sejour, until I move out there for at least six months, after my studies, but it would be nice to go there on holiday together for a couple of weeks this summer with as much ease as possible for him - visa wise.

Originally Posted by Joppa

This is a difficult case. To be eligible under Surinder Singh judgement, you both need to live in France for at least 6 months and you need to be exercising your EU economic right, i.e. working or being in self-employment, so being a student doesn't count.
There is another provision under Van der Elst judgement, in which a non-EU national who is working legally for an EU employer in another EU state can perform temporary work in UK for the same company without needing work permit, just a visa issued free.
Your best bet is under Surinder Singh, and you need to be working or in self-employment in another EU country for at least 6 months and living with your husband, which can be after you get your degree and before you do your postgrad work. You can combine it with your postgrad work, provided you'll be earning enough to maintain the both of you.

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by Neelam1982

I could, at some point go out and teach english for about 6 months or a year, if I can find a good school that pays enough for both of us.... Do you know how many months payslips I need to submit? Also, does my husband currently have freedom to travel to France for visit purposes, on the basis that I am an EU national? I want us to holiday in Paris for a couple of weeks in the summer and according to the schengen visa application form, he has rights of freedom of movement as an EU Spouse, is this right? We can delay the EEA Family Permit loophole and getting his carte sejour, until I move out there for at least six months, after my studies, but it would be nice to go there on holiday together for a couple of weeks this summer with as much ease as possible for him - visa wise.

Again, be real careful with this approach. There's no set standards for issuing a French carte de séjour to the non-EU spouse other than proof that the EU spouse is "settled" in France and that the non-EU spouse entered France legally. I suspect that coming from Pakistan, your spouse will need to have a tourist (i.e. Schengen) visa - a short-term visa that should be fairly easy to get - but which must be applied for outside of France. He should talk to the French consulate where he is currently living.

For your part, you need to show that you have a source of income of some sort and a place to live, plus the intention to stick around for a while. Again, no hard and fast guidelines, but you do need to be able to show a "good faith" intention to exercise your EU right to freedom of movement, etc.

If you want to make a holiday with your spouse in France, he'll need to have whatever visa he would need normally. Being the spouse of an EU national gets you nothing when it comes to a short-term holiday visit. (And actually, he'll need the same sort of visa when going to France to join you when you're working there.)
Cheers,
Bev

[Neelam1982]

Thanks, Bev for your detailed response and your help as there are no set standards for issuing a French Carte de Sejour (sorry, I don't have the French accents on my keyboard!), does this mean that I don't necessarily have to show that I am working in France. I saw somewhere that you have to be economically 'active' or be in an acceptable 'non-economically active' status in the EU, in order for non EU Spouse to be considered or 'accepted' to get a carte de sejour. non active would include students, retired persons, or persons who are self sufficient. Although it is not manditory, EU Citizens can apply for a residence card, and if I did this as a student in Paris, it would be marked with 'Student' on it. This would obviously furnish the fact that I am resident in France, and of course, if the prefecture asked for bank statements etc as prove of address - that wouldn't be a problem. Technically, I shouldn't have to prove anything to the prefecture and I could be living in Paris using my own resources, and have a residency card labelled 'EC-Inactiv', as long as I have € 466.99 to live on per month. Of course, this would increase, to allow for my husband. (Source: Séjour au-delà de 3 mois en France des citoyens européens et suisses "non-actifs" - Service-public.fr - FRENCH)

So, technically, am I right in thinking that I could go to France tomorrow, get the residency card as self sufficient and 'non-actif', rent an apartment, open a French bank account, get my husband to apply for his Schegan visa, with our marriage certificate and my passport copy and then come to Paris?

Married life would be so much nicer and easier, if he was in Paris, where I could catch a train to see him once a week, rather then once a year in Pakistan, which we have to do now

Do you know, Bev how long I would have to be living in France for, before we could apply for the EEA Family Permit? Or are there no hard and fast rules here also?

Another thing - on the EEA Family Permit question and answer section, there is a question:

"EUN2.14 Can family members of British citizens qualify for an EEA family permit? ('Surinder Singh' cases)"

within the answer, it states this:

"It does not matter if the only reason the British national went to another Member State was to exercise an economic Treaty right was so that he/ she could come back to the UK with his/ her family members under EC law."


Am I right in thinking that this implies that technically, I could just bring my husband over on a schegan Visa to France, then go there, and apply for a EEA Family Permit straight away? Isn't merely travelling to an EU member state nation also 'exercising' my "economic treaty right" of travel to Europe?

(Source: EUN02 - EEA Family Permits)

This would mean that I can bypass getting a carte de sejour and just get my husband to come on a Schegan Visa from Pakistan to France, and then I could travel to Paris and then we could apply for the EEA Family Permit immediately. Is this right?

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

Again, be real careful with this approach. There's no set standards for issuing a French carte de séjour to the non-EU spouse other than proof that the EU spouse is "settled" in France and that the non-EU spouse entered France legally. I suspect that coming from Pakistan, your spouse will need to have a tourist (i.e. Schengen) visa - a short-term visa that should be fairly easy to get - but which must be applied for outside of France. He should talk to the French consulate where he is currently living.

For your part, you need to show that you have a source of income of some sort and a place to live, plus the intention to stick around for a while. Again, no hard and fast guidelines, but you do need to be able to show a "good faith" intention to exercise your EU right to freedom of movement, etc.

If you want to make a holiday with your spouse in France, he'll need to have whatever visa he would need normally. Being the spouse of an EU national gets you nothing when it comes to a short-term holiday visit. (And actually, he'll need the same sort of visa when going to France to join you when you're working there.)
Cheers,
Bev

[-mia-]

Originally Posted by Neelam1982

This would mean that I can bypass getting a carte de sejour and just get my husband to come on a Schegan Visa from Pakistan to France, and then I could travel to Paris and then we could apply for the EEA Family Permit immediately. Is this right?

No. You are missing the point that you need be a resident in France. You living in the UK and him in France is not going to help you at all. You also need to be able to support him financially.

It seems you are thinking that it is easier to do this via the Family Permit in France but if you look at it objectively this is not the case. Your expenses will included having to set up household in France which you seem to be underestimating the cost of. By the time you move yourself to France, you'll probably have spent the same amount of money as the application fees in the UK. Moving to a different country isn't cost free.

You can not move you husband to France while you live in the UK. You both must live together.

[Neelam1982]

Thanks, Mia. I am not underestimating the costs of living in France. It is not just the cost element, but also the 'ease' element. I don't know if you know anything about the UK Spouse Visa rules or not, but the rules and regulations are a LOT stiffer and there are many many requirements from me, as his sponsor, to show to the UK Government before they even consider the Spousal application. I used to be on Welfare benefits here in the UK, and even though I am technically disabled and unable to work, I had to relinquish my welfare benefits in order to start the process of applying for his Spouse Visa. I was a part time student, because whilst being on welfare, legally I am allowed to study part time. Now, I am off welfare, I am able to study full time now, however I am not able to sponsor my husband on a UK Spouse Visa, as I do not have a full time job. So, now I am a full time student and as a full time student, I am NOT ALLOWED to sponsor my non EU Husband on a UK Spouse Visa, even though I have given up my welfare benefits. even if I get a full time job - my income levels have to be a specific amount, I need to show endless bank statements and we also have to prove our relationship - photos, telephone communication, place to live when he comes to the UK. The process can take up to 2 years, sometimes more. So, costs aside this EU route is a piece of cake.

If a Spanish Citizen, for example, can come to the UK and live here, with their non-EU Spouse with relative ease, then I don't see why I cannot do the same and move to France.

Also, I am allowed to be a student in France and have my non-EU spouse with me - as its his right and my right, under EU Law that I can have my family members with me. Source: EU - Residence - Your Europe

Technically I don't need to have a job in EU, as long as I we can show that we have some funds - which my husband has.

As I quoted from the UK Visa website, before, I can exercise my EU right to travel to the EU, in order to bring my family members back with me on an EEA Family Permit. Its not illegal, just an easily and LEGAL way to avoid going down the hair-greying UK Spouse Visa route, for which I have started the process of giving up so much for, in order to be my husbands sponsor. Why not use an easy way out, if there is one? Either way, I would still have to give up financially.

Originally Posted by -mia-

No. You are missing the point that you need be a resident in France. You living in the UK and him in France is not going to help you at all. You also need to be able to support him financially.

It seems you are thinking that it is easier to do this via the Family Permit in France but if you look at it objectively this is not the case. Your expenses will included having to set up household in France which you seem to be underestimating the cost of. By the time you move yourself to France, you'll probably have spent the same amount of money as the application fees in the UK. Moving to a different country isn't cost free.

You can not move you husband to France while you live in the UK. You both must live together.