pacs question...

shawnchristian · #1 (**permalink**) 9th July 2008, 08:56 AM

hello, maybe someone can help me with this.. with all the paperwork needed there is the certificate de coutume et de celibat? I was wondering what if you are married already to the same person you want to Pacs with? (married in Belgium, I am american, he is french) we want to pacs in france , will this be an obstacle? (we can't marry in france as it's not recognized).. thanks for any help!

parsnips · #2 (**permalink**) 9th July 2008, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnchristian

hello, maybe someone can help me with this.. with all the paperwork needed there is the certificate de coutume et de celibat? I was wondering what if you are married already to the same person you want to Pacs with? (married in Belgium, I am american, he is french) we want to pacs in france , will this be an obstacle? (we can't marry in france as it's not recognized).. thanks for any help!

Hi shawnchristian,
I know a couple married in Holland who have since PACsed in france,so it can be done . I suggest you go to a notaire who speaks your language ( unless you are french fluent)--you should be able to get free advice ( ask about charges beforehand).

Bevdeforges · #3 (**permalink**) 9th July 2008, 03:48 PM

You should be ok. The certificat de coutume is to "prove" that you are free to marry in your home country. If you're from the US, as far as they are concerned you're not married to anyone (because they don't recognize same-sex marriages no matter where they were done).
Cheers,
Bev

johnhf1947 · #4 (**permalink**) 10th July 2008, 06:17 PM

Greetings tous,
This is possibly not the best time to make my first post on the forum, however...I am guessing the following is probably applicable only to Anglo French couples.
Having done what we thought was the necessary paperwork for (yet another) dossier, it would seem that the Certificat de Coutume obtained from the British Consulate in Paris is not valid (She French,me Brit male) in the city of Bourges (Cher,18000).The Tribunal of this wonderful old place has never done a pacs for a Brit.They (the Tribunal) cannot understand how I am unable to present an officially certified upto date 'mesure de tutelle' -in short,a paper to say that I am not mad (which at the moment,I quite possibly am).Also the wording of the Brit Consulate's document states their attestation is based on what I have declared to them -ie based on trust- and not 'formally' accredited.
Madame la Greffiere en Chef (Chief Clerk of the pacs department here) cheerfully tells us that they rigourously go by the letter of the law.The fact that most other French Departments happily accept the Brit Consulate's Certificat - the much harassed but pleasant lady vice-consul's words today - this was not the case with this particular city.
Anybody else walked into this Kafkaesque situation?
Apart from that, life is wonderful in deep France -truly so, especially if you do not have to deal with officialdom. Which, if you have just moved to a place, is unavoidable. C'est la Vie.
Best wishes from a now steam- free John.

Bevdeforges · #5 (**permalink**) 10th July 2008, 08:34 PM

I can only tell you from my experience, but when I got married here in France, I was told I had to get the certificate de coutume from a lawyer admitted to the bar in both France and my home country (in my case, the US). The Embassy or Consulate could not issue such a document. You might want to ask at the mairie if such a document from a dual qualified attorney might be more acceptable. (They do like to see you grovel a bit - play it up big time and sometimes it works.)
Cheers,
Bev

johnhf1947 · #6 (**permalink**) 11th July 2008, 10:50 AM

Thanks Bev - have ended up by roping in the amiable British vice consul in Paris who has had a 'gentle word' in the ear of PACS people in Bourges (my new hometown) Though this was way beyond her call of duty I believe that by suggesting that she was going to speak to their superior about their over zealous adherence to 'The Law' was not conducive to good international relations -or something along those lines. Strange how people immersed in intimidating bureaucracy are vulnerable to 'counter intimidation'
Thanks from a somewhat more cheerful John

Bevdeforges · #7 (**permalink**) 11th July 2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnhf1947

Thanks Bev - have ended up by roping in the amiable British vice consul in Paris who has had a 'gentle word' in the ear of PACS people in Bourges (my new hometown) Though this was way beyond her call of duty I believe that by suggesting that she was going to speak to their superior about their over zealous adherence to 'The Law' was not conducive to good international relations -or something along those lines. Strange how people immersed in intimidating bureaucracy are vulnerable to 'counter intimidation'
Thanks from a somewhat more cheerful John

Between this and your other post, I see that you are slowly coming to grips with the "care and feeding" of fonctionnaires.

After a while, you find that outright sucking up often works, or simply lying to get your way ("no, that document does not exist in my home country").

I've had some luck with the overzealous types by simply "offering" to go back to the official who told me what the process is supposed to be and tell them that this particular fonctionnaire said that the official was wrong and had given me bad advice. (Boy, did that get the lady in our mairie jumping - cause I was offering to go back and inform the gendarme who had done my paperwork that he had made a mistake.

)

If you've found a "friend" in the mairie or the prefecture or anywhere else official, treasure them! It's amazing what a huge difference they can make!
Cheers,
Bev