Expats in France - biggest lessons?

[Elise]

So for those of you who moved to France within the past few years, what has your experience been? Lessons learned? Things you really wish you had researched or done more before you moved, assumptions you made that were completely right or wrong? If there was one thing you could tell a non-EU someone moving to France (other than learn the language!), what would that be? Merci bien en avance pour les responses.....

[giantpanda]

Originally Posted by Elise

So for those of you who moved to France within the past few years, what has your experience been? Lessons learned? Things you really wish you had researched or done more before you moved, assumptions you made that were completely right or wrong? If there was one thing you could tell a non-EU someone moving to France (other than learn the language!), what would that be? Merci bien en avance pour les responses.....

Hi!

To guide you through French red tape:


1.Because they do things like that for a given question in your home country, forget that -

No need to tell the French ( administration ) how it is done in your home country, they are not interested.

Here it is done the French way.

2. Never assume that taxes or other red tape matters are logical in France - they are not in your home country, but you have hardly thought of that in the past.

3. If you live in the "France profonde", do not admit that things are done the same way as in Paris, or as specified in the law.

It is not advisable to tell the local authorities that they are not up-to-date. That tends to get you nowhere.

4. Remember when you read something about a topic ( also in GB books, which are mostly by definition not update ) ) , that it is hardly God's word .

The text is usually just a small aspect of the question. You have to consider the conditions, the exceptions, and the exceptions of the exceptions. NB. French laws are hardly cancelled - items tend to be tagged on.

5. Remember that a French law does not come into application after it is passed.
Without the" décrêts application " which can take 6 months, more or even never come, the law has no value, whereby a minister can with the "décrêts" completely change the spirit of a law.

6. Remember that media tend to consider a law project , as a law, which can come into application in short. More than 70% of what is discussed never comes into pratice.

7. If you have a French main residence, do not think that you are covered by an GB will - In most cases, it is not worth the paper it is written on.

8. Succession is a matter in France you should think of before buying a house ( even a maison secondaire ) - It saves money.

9. Do not admit that French Succession law will necessary secure the other spouse's life after the 1st death. It only does, if you are active.

9. If an Immobilier these days talks about solving your succession problems in buying a house " En Tontine ( except over an SCI ) then you can bet he does not know what he is talking about.

Yours,

pomhorn

[Bevdeforges]

Ooh, la, la! How long do you have for this topic?

giantpanda has given you some very good ones. Mine are of a more general nature:

Change comes very slowly (if at all) to France. If you don't like how something works here, just get used to it. You can't change it and you will only make yourself miserable if you try. (Just ask President Sarkozy! )

In their own way, the French are every bit as obsessed with rules and laws as the Germans. The big difference, however, is that the French basically ignore about half of all the rules and laws they set up. There is no way (as a foreigner) you can predict which laws you can safely ignore and which ones are enforced to the letter - and in fact, as a foreigner, you are held to a different standard when it comes to obeying rules and laws anyhow.

Don't judge France or the French by what you know of Paris. Province is much more laid back than Paris (and in many ways, more fun), even if the Parisiens think those who live in Province are a bunch of hicks.

Every Belgian joke you hear in France is told in Belgium with the Frenchman as the butt of the joke. (Don't mention this to the French.)
Cheers,
Bev

[giantpanda]

Hi!
Forgot an important ones:

Do not forget to brush up your French before moving and that means both of you for a couple, especially outside large cities, unless you have the intention to teach English to the French.

Also:

Think twice if you are on pension or pre-pension, in settling at the end of the world, even if both of you have a driving licence. What happens, if one of you has to come into a rolling chair in 10 years.
Matters will be more simple, if your home is on one level, and if it does not have a sprawling garden. ( of course if you can not afford to move again).

Yours,

giantpanda

[Elise]

Thanks for all of this. In fact we are in our late 30s and hope not to be in a rolling chair anytime soon! And we have a young child. So if we eventually do this there will be all those questions of schooling, keeping the work we do now here going or something like that...correct me if I'm wrong but in terms of long stays in france, you can basically stay as a tourist for up to 90 days per annum or if you plan to move to work, you either need to prove you have X amount of euros or get a working visa from your potential employer? Any other legal options for longterm stays in france?

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by Elise

And we have a young child. So if we eventually do this there will be all those questions of schooling, keeping the work we do now here going or something like that...correct me if I'm wrong but in terms of long stays in france, you can basically stay as a tourist for up to 90 days per annum or if you plan to move to work, you either need to prove you have X amount of euros or get a working visa from your potential employer? Any other legal options for longterm stays in france?

Um, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's not nearly as easy as that to stay in France for the long term. (And I have the scars to prove it!)

As a tourist (which means you will not be working - or if on a "business trip" that you are doing work for your employer back home) you can stay for up to 90 days. Technically, you are on a "tourist visa" but for someone from the US you don't need to apply in advance or mess with any paperwork. And there is no formal limit to how many tourist visits you can make in a year. Lots of folks used to just slip across the border and re-enter to get a new stamp in their passport and re-start the 90 day clock. BUT with Schengen, that 90 days now applies to the entire Schengen area and it's getting harder to get your passport stamped these days. Should you get caught, it's on you to prove when you entered France (or the Schengen area).

To stay "for the long term" (their term - anything over 90 days), you have to get a visa for yourself and your family - and in your case you will have to apply from outside France (i.e. from the US - and at the French Consulate that serves your area). It isn't as easy as simply showing you have X dollars (or euros) in a bank account. You need to explain how you will be supporting yourself while in France and what you are planning on doing there (i.e. why you want to stay there). If you won't be contributing to the French social insurance system, you have to show that you have private health coverage that is at least equal to the state plan. Oh, and the visa forms do have to be filled out in French.

Back when I attempted to get a visa, the Consulate in Germany (where I was resident at the time) had orders not to give out the visa forms unless you could present a job offer letter (in French). Problem is that the Consulate does not always have the latest information - and though I followed their advice, I had two years of pain and aggravation because the prefecture in the area I settled was playing from a different rule book. (That's one of the "lessons learned" about France - fonctionnaires are often making things up as they go along - and you have no recourse if the Consulate or any other government agency just happens to give you bad advice. )

And if you are planning on being in France for 183 days per year or more, you will be considered "resident" in France and become subject to French income taxes and French inheritance laws (should you die while resident in France). As US citizens, you will also still be subject to US income taxes.

Start by checking the website for the French consulate for your area. They usually do have information (in English!) about visas for France.
Cheers,
Bev

[parsnips]

One small point re giantpanda's comment that tontine is not solution when buying house---since abolition of inheritance tax between spouses this is now more attractive and couples wrongly advised in the past now find themselves in a better situation.

[giantpanda]

Originally Posted by Elise

Thanks for all of this. In fact we are in our late 30s and hope not to be in a rolling chair anytime soon! And we have a young child. So if we eventually do this there will be all those questions of schooling, keeping the work we do now here going or something like that...correct me if I'm wrong but in terms of long stays in france, you can basically stay as a tourist for up to 90 days per annum or if you plan to move to work, you either need to prove you have X amount of euros or get a working visa from your potential employer? Any other legal options for longterm stays in france?

Hi!

As tourist you can not work.

If you work ( and that means also working on internet out of France ), you have to make a French Income tax return - but then :

1. Finding a job ( even in so-called professions where the French are looking for qualified people - eg. nurse, teachers -because your qualifications have to be confirmed. ) is rather difficult.

2. If you work as an "independent", the hurdles are the Social Security contributions which for starters are not proportional to turnover.

Yours,

giantpanda

[giantpanda]

Originally Posted by parsnips

One small point re giantpanda's comment that tontine is not solution when buying house---since abolition of inheritance tax between spouses this is now more attractive and couples wrongly advised in the past now find themselves in a better situation.

Hi!

You are right, it can be a slightly better situation.
But many make the mistake to think that no tax for the wife, means she inherits. That is not necessarily the case, if there are " heritiers réservataires " - any children for example.

But if the house has a value over Euro 75,000 ( at the time of the succession ) the question of "property transfer" is invalid. The remaining partner has only a privilege on 1st choice of the choice in the house property in the split of the succession ( and nothing else extra ) which is quite a different situation to what most people believed.

I would advise any couples who have bought "en tontine" to urgently review their succession matter, but even with that any foreignor settling in France should do this, as stated.

Yours,

giantpanda

[parsnips]

Re tontine:According to my sources(Le Particulier guide to inheritance) the tontine provides that the part belonging to the deceased goes automatically to the survivor, with the legal heirs having no claim :it can thus be used by unmarried couples (although in their case subject to punitive taxation); since the abolition of inheritance tax between spouses it can be used by married couples for any value of house. The only caveat is that the couple should not be too far apart in age so that there is a fair equality of risk of pre decease for each.