French citizenship

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French citizenship


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Old 23rd February 2011, 10:15 PM
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Hi,
I recently realised that my maternel grandfather was a French citizen. I also learnt that he wasn't aware of that initially and when he found out he got his citizenship again and also received a monthly pension from the French govt. He was in Singapore at that time and he was 87 then (1987) and he passed away in 1989. The pension was then given to my grandmother, which she had to pick up from The French consulate in Singapore.
I am very keen on becoming a french citizen and of course for my mother as well.
I only managed to get my grandfather's acte de décès with the etat civil stam from Singapore's french consulate. how can i get his birth and mariage certificat? since he realized his French nationality when he was much older would the French have created a birth & marriage transcription with état civil logo? also how can I retrieve his certificat de nationalite française? i was told that a copy of that cannot be produced for someone who is no longer alive? is that true?

also I read the civil code to see how my case applies but i cant seem to understand. My mother and I are Singaporeans, my grandfather was born in India and got married in Pondichery (former French colony)
Kindly advise how i may proceed with this

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Old 23rd February 2011, 11:09 PM
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Hello,

If your grandfather was born in India, how was he French? Was he French when your mother was born? If your Grandfather was indeed French at the time of your mother's birth, you might be able to work this out.

Given that your Grandfather died less than 50 years ago (he's your last ancestor to have had "possession d'état français"), you might be able to request a CNF (Certificat de Nationalité Française) and received it approved.

BUT...

... you'll have to produce all the actes de naissance et mariage up to your grandfather's PARENTS and GRANDPARENTS who should have been French and born in France.

If your "really French" ancestor is a great-grand-parent who was French born in France, then you might need to go the "long" way... request a CNF that will be refused, and eventually request a réintegration based on your links to France and French culture.

I see a lot of "holes" in your case, but if you could provide more precise details, especially how was your Grandfather French, given that he was born in India (not in Pondichéry, right?), I might be able to provide some preliminary guidance.

As it's always been said, the French consulate of your place of residency is the best place to ask (check if there's an adjoint en charge de la nationalité), with as many documents, or precise information on the births and marriages of two consecutive generations of ancestors who were "French born in France".

Last but not least, if you are considering applying for nationality because of French Ancestry, you should have a good command of French Language, not only the basic French needed for "naturalisations" or "cartes de séjour". One of the many things that the fonctionnaires will "evaluate" (no rule about this but they'll do) is that you are indeed "one of us", and speaking really good French is basic, rule of thumb.

jacques.


Last edited by jacquest; 23rd February 2011 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 11:31 PM
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Hi jac,
yes my grandfather's cousin ( a French citizen living in Pondichery) told me my great grandparents were French not born in France they were born in Pondichery and when my grandfather was born he didnt know he was French until his cousin urged him to get his citizenship. The french gave many indians the option to keep the french nationality in 1954.My grandfather was born in a town very close to Pondicherry. can't I apply for citizenship for my mum ( his daughter) just on the basis that her father is French. the consulate in Singapore doesn't have any other document except his acte de décès. I have my great grandfather's name and birthdate, am not sure how I will prove their citizenship though. is there a way i can apply without my great grandparents? plus in his acte de deces its an official etat civil doc. is there an act in the civil code that suits me? I'm sure i can get my grandfather's marriage cert as Singapore's consulat says its in their system but they cant download it.

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Old 23rd February 2011, 11:52 PM
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Hello,

Let's see...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaridos View Post
Hi jac,
yes my grandfather's cousin ( a French citizen living in Pondichery) told me my great grandparents were French not born in France they were born in Pondichery and when my grandfather was born he didnt know he was French until his cousin urged him to get his citizenship.
Sorry, I can't help you there, I do not have knowledge about the treatment of nationality issues in Colonies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaridos View Post
The french gave many indians the option to keep the french nationality in 1954.My grandfather was born in a town very close to Pondicherry. can't I apply for citizenship for my mum ( his daughter) just on the basis that her father is French.
No, as far as I understand you can't, if she was not registered as French at birth, as, just to start evaluating any of the possible courses of action, she'd need to prove two consecutive generations of French born in France, and it does not seem to be her case if your grandfather was of Indian ancestry, born in a Colony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaridos View Post
the consulate in Singapore doesn't have any other document except his acte de décès. I have my great grandfather's name and birthdate, am not sure how I will prove their citizenship though.
You might try the Centre des Archives Diplomatiques de Nantes, where all the registries of the "français de l'étranger" are held, but I'm not sure about *former colonies*.

In any case, this check at the CADN would only give you the eventual "birth certificate" (acte de naissance) of your grandfather, but, again in my opinion, that would be useless to your mother, as she won't have two consecutive generations of French born in France, anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaridos View Post
is there a way i can apply without my great grandparents? plus in his acte de deces its an official etat civil doc.
Having THAT "official etat civil doc." won't be "anything special". Actually ALL the documents you might need to produce will have to be "official etat civil docs.".

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaridos View Post
is there an act in the civil code that suits me?
I don't think so. But you already have a "no" as answer, so I'd advise that you research further and more in detail, or eventually make a consultation with an "expert" (some nationality lawyer, etc.), and first of all at the French consulate of your place of residency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaridos View Post
I'm sure i can get my grandfather's marriage cert as Singapore's consulat says its in their system but they cant download it.
That "marriage cert" is just one of the many other "official etat civil docs." that you'll have to produce. It will be needed, but only if you have all the other ones, too. As far as I understand your case, this wouldn't be possible.

IF your mother had been registered at birth (or during her minority) at the French consulate by your grandfather, the story would be completely different. But I can't see which "ancestry" procedure you might go through given your case.

Nevertheless, please keep us updated on any progress as it is indeed an interesting "case".

jacques.


Last edited by jacquest; 24th February 2011 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 24th February 2011, 05:43 AM
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Thank you so very much for all your speedy replies! definitely will keep you updated hopefully i'll get some good news. thanks again

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