Becoming an English teacher in France

[jacquest]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

I admit that what jacquest is talking about is a complicated way of going about it. And, while I'm not sure of the exact requirements, it may be necessary to get your wife's French parent to claim their French nationality in order to make her eligible.

Evidently it's not the fastest way of doing it. It took me (and other acquaintances that have done it this way) around 20 months from sending the first dossier to getting my French birth certificate and passeport.

But if you are under the right circumstances (that we have already discussed in this same thread), it might be THE way to go if there's no other way, and it's pretty easy.

Of course it's much simpler if you are minor and your father is french born in France, but then, you wouldn't be asking this here.

Here in South America, there are many, many descendants of French immigrants of 4 or 5 generations ago. And for these kind cases is that France provides kind of a "jus sanguinis" given that you have maintained or acquired your strong links with France. I have several acquaintances across 4 countries here in the southern tip of South America who also did it successfully. It's like a race with hurdles. Prove that you are a descendant of two consecutive generations of French born (no matter how many generations ago), check that they are all "men" until 1946, OK, now prove that you have strong links to France.

And no, you don't need that a parent claims it before you, due to this reason of the "links". It's a "personal liaison" between the person claiming citizenship and the French Republic. And when your nationality claim is registered (thus becoming a French Citizen), this DOES NOT MEAN that your brother (to give a clear example) is entitled to it. Your brother will share your "ancestry", but possibly not your "links" or your "integration" to France.

It's like France were saying 'OK, you are French by filation, but please demonstrate that besides the blood -which is utmost important- you are also "FRENCH" in mind '. And prove it! :-)
That's the "spirit" of the civil code on this specific article.

jacques.

[jacquest]

Here's the full explanation:
http://www.consulfrance-buenos-aires...MG/pdf/CNF.pdf

The LAST paragraph of the last page, explains the "links" thing...

Wherever it says "argentinian", replace it by the current nationality of your wife.

And here's the form, that you need to send to Paris, not to your consulate.
http://www.consulfrance-buenos-aires...onaire_CNF.pdf

There's one issue that might be confusing.
The "links" thing only applies when your "demande de certificat de nationalite" is rejected by article 30-3 which says that you cannot be delivered a CNF because your french ancestors "were french" more than 50 years ago. Only in this case you can go for article 21-14 and the links. Otherwise you can't.
But this situation is the most usual situation of the descendants of French immigrants after at least 2 generations, typical here in South America, and typical also in the US. For Canada (especially for Quebec) there's a special status and some important dates in the past (notably some treaty in which the Quebecois got independent or something like that, sorry I do not know the details but Google will help), because otherwise 90% of Quebecois could eventually become French citizens through article 21-14. There's something there like their "will to become independent" which forbids them of applying for article 21-14 and French citizenship.

But in the case of the descendants of the French emigrants of the 19th and early 20th century in South America, Mexico and the US, the usual case is that your CNF will be rejected by article 30-3 and then you can apply to article 21-14 if you have the "links". (and if your ancestral link reaches you through men until 1946...).

Check both articles, 30-3 and 21-14 of the civil code. It's crystal clear. The instructions of the Buenos Aires consulate are also very straightforward.

jacques

[Bevdeforges]

Jacquest, I'm not denying that the route you took exists - but I'm betting that you speak pretty fluent French and, as you say, you maintain your ties to the homeland. It's those ties to France and the French culture that are critical, once you've shown the ancestry.

When I took French nationality here (as the spouse of a French national) they were quite adamant that the "cultural and assimilation" aspects were the determining factors. And there is the usual caveat that it depends on the particular French fonctionnaire you run across. Honk one of them off, and you won't get your nationality, no matter what documents you can produce. (You can, however, re-apply 30 minutes after receiving your refusal and hope the paperwork crosses a different desk!)
Cheers,
Bev

[jacquest]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

Jacquest, I'm not denying that the route you took exists - but I'm betting that you speak pretty fluent French and, as you say, you maintain your ties to the homeland. It's those ties to France and the French culture that are critical, once you've shown the ancestry.

Bev, No worries, just trying to help! :-)

Surely you'll need to speak French in order to maintain a fluent (though not PERFECT) conversation with the relevant civil servant (be it a local one in France or at a consulate abroad). I'd say a level B1 would do, but no one will ask for a diploma (though if you have it, include it in the dossier, of course!).

The "ties" (better word than links) need to be evident, but it's a whole subjective matter. All the cases I know that have gone this way had completely different sets of ties, but no one had ever lived in France. Even one of them had never visited France.

Speaking French, being related to your local Lycee Francais or relevant French association, having some kind of relationship with friends or distant relatives in France, having visited France, these are all different kind of ties. As the fonctionnaire at the consulate told me "if you have a chateau in France..." but no descendant of "emigres" will have a chateau in France, evidently. If you resided (legally) in France for a given period, that's an enormous plus, and (my guess) would be the only "tie" needed together with speaking some French. I did not have that.

After several generations it's most probable that you might have "acquired" ties with France, than that you have "maintained" them through the generations. There's no "test", it's your dossier with "all the private or public documents that show your ties to France" that matters, and you'll have an appointment at the consulate to go over the dossier with the fonctionnaire. The consulate receives it and sends it to France. They won't receive something that's not within the basic ties that are expected, but they will send it to France, and it will be in France that they will decide if your ties are enough or not, and that's done by someone you will never meet.

All in all, it's a subjective matter, which shows that "you are French" despite not living in France. But again, it's subjective.

A clearly presented dossier, good manners at the consulate, trying to speak French even if it's not perfect, demonstrating clearly that you are NOT asking for any financial help from France or intending to do so after you get your Nationality is very important (i.e. you are professionally/economically independent and well integrated at your current country). This is not written in the civil code, but the consulates will want to be sure of it despite not being something that they are "officially" asked to do.

All this consulate appointments is for the "second" stage, when you had already received the rejection of the CNF due to the 50 years period (article 30-3). Before that, there's no need of any consulate appointment. You just fill in the form, attach the birth and mariage certificates (all the generations that are needed) and send it to France.

jacques.

[Shelagh]

Hello,

My experience as someone who didn't go to uni but has an EFL teaching certificate is that the thing that is absolutely essential here is to be able to say you are "Bac + 3" You are lucky - you can do that just by getting your degree award papers translated by a certified translator (on the list of the French Consulate). That will cost a bit but not nearly as much as it would cost me to go to uni at the age of 55 and get a degree in archeology or something - I would then be qualified to teach in schools here. (Strangely enough, I'm "good enough" to teach uni students but not school pupils.)

Then you'll need to get a basic teaching qualification, which I think you'll find useful personally as well as necessary for finding a job.

As others have said, forget about public schools. On the other hand, there are lots of private schools crying out for native speakers. There, you don't need to jump through the same hoops but you do have to be a "Bac+3" to teach for state exams.

Good luck.

Shelagh

[InspectorClusoe]

I agree with Bev the private and international schools are your best bet.
And I would add the question why would you want to teach in the French 'state' schools? They are badly paid. You will find work in the private sector if you have a good CV and experience. OF course, it is not so stable an existence but you will find work I am sure

[Lillyfer]

Originally Posted by Shelagh

Hello,

My experience as someone who didn't go to uni but has an EFL teaching certificate is that the thing that is absolutely essential here is to be able to say you are "Bac + 3" You are lucky - you can do that just by getting your degree award papers translated by a certified translator (on the list of the French Consulate). That will cost a bit but not nearly as much as it would cost me to go to uni at the age of 55 and get a degree in archeology or something - I would then be qualified to teach in schools here. (Strangely enough, I'm "good enough" to teach uni students but not school pupils.)

Then you'll need to get a basic teaching qualification, which I think you'll find useful personally as well as necessary for finding a job.

As others have said, forget about public schools. On the other hand, there are lots of private schools crying out for native speakers. There, you don't need to jump through the same hoops but you do have to be a "Bac+3" to teach for state exams.

Good luck.

Shelagh

How do you get the 'basic teaching qualification?'

What is the best/easiest ways to locate the private and international schools in your area?

I live in Metz, France and have had a difficult time finding work. I also have a bachelors degree, which I thought would help... Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[clothmama]

Originally Posted by Lillyfer

How do you get the 'basic teaching qualification?'

Once I've finished my degree I'm going to do a 1 year Post grad Diploma in Education which will mean I can teach in Australia / the UK etc and hoping it will help to find work in France if decide to go that route to find gainful employment!

In the UK they are called a PGCE (or were a few years ago) I'll be doing mine by correspondence from an Aussie uni and pop over to the UK for my pracs. I know the OU in the UK does some correspondence courses as well so you can stay in France but still get the qualifications.

[Pecosa]

Hi,
Is this true for Germany as well? My husband's grandparents were from Germany (dead now), but due to the sponsorship program were able to flee Nazi Germany to LA, California back in the 40's. I assume they had to give up their German citizenship back then so does that mean my husband cannot get German citizenship access through them?
I'd love any help you might be able to offer on this subject!
Thanks,
Beth

[jacquest]

Originally Posted by Pecosa

Hi,
Is this true for Germany as well? My husband's grandparents were from Germany (dead now), but due to the sponsorship program were able to flee Nazi Germany to LA, California back in the 40's. I assume they had to give up their German citizenship back then so does that mean my husband cannot get German citizenship access through them?
I'd love any help you might be able to offer on this subject!
Thanks,
Beth

Hello Beth,

Nationality laws are very particular to each country (even within the EU, each country has different laws) and there are many particular cases in each law.

I guess your husband should dig, search and research about German nationality law, and do not stand by the first answer or piece of information he gets. He must have his case clear (how and when did his grandparents lose their nationality, what's the current situation concerning that "lost", are there any "reintegration" processes in place, etc.), and then navigate the various options.

My personal direct experience with French nationality law, and my lateral experience with Spanish nationality law of some relatives has taught me that.

People will tell you this or that, but it what's written, and how each case falls within the interpretation of what's written in the civil code that matters.

Good luck!
jacques.