Long Term Visa pour Conjoint de Francais PROCESS?

[AlTay]

Hi, All -

I'm brand new to this forum, although I've been browsing it for a while now...

I'm (unsuccessfully) seeking information about the general process to go through in order to obtain French citizenship through marriage to a French national. I realize that the French aren't the most forthcoming with such official information, and I know there are all sorts of steps to the process that aren't mentioned in any official documents regarding this subject, so I thought an unofficial listing about this process would exist somewhere? I've found many sites which describe parts of the process, but also therefore many inconsistencies in what is being said. I'm aware the process may be slightly different depending on the mairie, but I'm wondering if anyone can shed some insight into the general process, starting with the Long Term Visa, all the way through obtaining the Carte de Sejour, etc.?

I hate to ask this question which I'm SURE has probably been asked before a hundred times, but I couldn't find any centralized threads on the forum or on the internet. Everything is either just partial information or outdated information (or the person has no idea what they're talking about )

Before I go asking specifics, I figured I'd wait to see if anyone has another thread or web site I can check out first.

Thanks in advance,
Alex

[Bevdeforges]

This is the most definitive site I know of: Acquisition de la nationalité française - Service-public.fr

Click on "Nationalité françaises par mariage" for the details (in French).

It depends a bit on how long you've been married to a French national and whether or not you have been residing in France. It is possible to claim French nationality after being married to a French citizen for a number of years, even if you aren't living in France - and thus no long-stay visa nor carte de séjour needed.

Generally, you have to have been married to the French person for at least 4 years before you can apply. It's 5 years if you haven't lived legally for at least 3 years in France with your French spouse.

As far as a visa goes, you need to check with the French consulate covering the area in which you are currently living. Basically, as long as the marriage is registered with the consulate, they can't deny you a long-stay visa unless you're a threat to national security, have committed a reasonably serious crime or if you refuse to take the mandatory French classes should they decide your French isn't up to snuff (and they only require a very basic level).

The exact requirements of what you have to submit to request nationality vary a bit from one prefecture (or consulate) to the next and according to your precise situation. They have a year to process the paperwork and conduct their "investigation" to determine if you are properly assimilated or not. You do need to speak passable French (at something better than the basic level required for a visa) and to demonstrate an acceptable degree of assimilation into French society and culture.
Cheers,
Bev

[AlTay]

Thanks for the information, Bev! I'll be sure to read as much of the website as I can.

I should've been more precise with my original posting, so the low-down is:

I haven't yet married my girlfriend, however marriage seems inevitable so that we may be together in France as soon as I'm through with school in the states...That won't be for 2 years, give or take, but as you can tell, I like getting a head-start on things so I know what's coming!

From what I've gathered by surfing the web and reading other people's stories, I can go about obtaining my carte de sejour in one of two ways:

1) Obtain the Long Stay VISITOR visa to France, then marry in France, and then obtain my carte de sejour once living there on the visa. (I wish it was as easy done as said)

2) Get married first, then obtain the Long Stay SPOUSE visa (Etablissement pour conjoint de francais) in the states, and then obtain the carte de sejour after moving to France (unfortunately, it seems that this method would require me to fly to France to get married first, then return to the states for the Long Stay visa process, and then fly back once I've obtained it)


Am I wrong in assuming that there are two different types of Long Stay visas as I've mentioned above? The visitor one costs $99 bucks to process according to my consulate's website, and the spouse visa is free.

Which of these 2 proposed methods would be the best way to proceed? Are there other methods I haven't yet thought of? We're very flexible with when we'd get married in regards to the visa/citizenship process, AKA we can plan getting married around the process.

I assume it is also wiser to get married in France rather than the states, seeing as France is the final destination...?

Thanks!

[Bevdeforges]

OK, I figured there was a "story" behind your question...

Nothing goes exactly by the book in France (and every consulate, prefecture and mairie has their own set of rules and procedures) but in general, here are the main points to consider:

As far as where to get married - I'd say getting married in the US is probably the "easiest" as far as that goes. The actual process for marrying in the US is way easier than what you'll go through in France (as a foreigner). See the US consulate in Paris sheet on getting married in France for details http://france.usembassy.gov/root/pdf...s-marriage.pdf

What takes time when you marry in the US is getting the certified marriage certificate (usually issued by the state rather than the town in which you get married) and then getting your livret de famille from the French consulate. This can take a month or two after you are married and means that either your new wife stays with you for a bit or she returns to France while you get your paperwork sorted. However, once you're past that hurdle, they basically can't refuse you the spouse visa unless they can show you are a threat to national security or if you flat out refuse to learn French.

Getting a long stay visitor visa for France is riskier. You can be turned down for any of a zillion reasons and you have to prove your ability to support yourself in France without a job. If you go over to marry in France on a 90 day Schengen tourist visa (basically the European version of the VWP), there is usually a loophole whereby you can apply for your spouse visa without having to go back to the US - but not all prefectures and mairies are aware of this, and some may refuse to process the paperwork, preferring to send you back to the US.

In any event, you probably won't get a carte de séjour right away anyhow. The procedure is currently that you have your interview with the OFII, who then validates your visa for the first year. This functions as your "carte de séjour" until you have been in France for a year and apply for "renewal."

If your fiancée's family wants to have a big church wedding and all, you can always do the civil ceremony in the US and then the church wedding and party back in France once you're street legal.
Cheers,
Bev

[Chitty]

Altay,

Having gone thru this process myself I feel for you coz I too was lost with the red tape etc regarding marriages etc and what to do.

What Bev has outlined previously is all correct. If you have been married to a french national for 5 years and have not lived in France for at least three of them you can ONLY apply for nationality AFTER the 5th year. If you are married AND have spent at least 3 years in France or the Dom Toms (french territories - New caledonia, Tahiti, Guandeloupe etc) you can then apply for nationaility after 4 years.

Due to a change in regulations in June last year a lot of the info that is on the web is out dated.

N.B. YOU CANNOT CHANGE A LONG STAY TOURIST VISA TO A VIE PRIVE VIE FAMILIAL WHILST IN FRANCE. I Arrived in France with a long stay tourist visa and married my wife at the local Marie. I then Had to return to South Africa and change the visa as it is IMPOSSIBLE to do whilst in France. Two weeks later (good thing for honeymoons) and with the right visa being issued by the embassy in Johannesburg things went smoothly when I returned just hope it will continue like that for the renewal.

[AlTay]

Thanks Bev and Chitty for your responses!

Bev, based on what you've said, getting married in the US before applying for the Long Stay Spouse Visa does seem like the best option. When applying for the spouse visa, does one not have to show/prove that they can support themselves for the life of the visa? Is this only a requirement for the long stay visitor visa?

How long after I've arrived in France on the long stay spouse visa do I have before the interview with OFII to validate it for the first year?

Based on Chitty's remark, I will then have to live in France with my then-wife for four years (four Long Term Spouse Visa renewals) before I can apply for nationality/carte de sejour...is this correct?

And does the CDS have to be renewed every single year until...I die?

In my situation, from what I've been reading online, would I be looking for the CDS Vie Privée et Familiale?

Sorry for all the questions upon questions!

Thanks all for your help,
Alex

[Bevdeforges]

Careful - I think you're overthinking things here...

Originally Posted by AlTay

When applying for the spouse visa, does one not have to show/prove that they can support themselves for the life of the visa? Is this only a requirement for the long stay visitor visa?

Oddly enough, there is no requirement for financial support if you're applying for the spouse visa. They will probably ask for information about what your spouse does and where they are living in France - but as long as the marriage isn't fraudulent and you're not a threat to public order, they really can't turn you down. The long stay visitor visa is something altogether different and doesn't apply in your situation.

How long after I've arrived in France on the long stay spouse visa do I have before the interview with OFII to validate it for the first year?

It depends on the departement you're in. Some departements are pretty current on their OFII interviews. In others, it can take several months before you get your appointment.

Based on Chitty's remark, I will then have to live in France with my then-wife for four years (four Long Term Spouse Visa renewals) before I can apply for nationality/carte de sejour...is this correct?

A carte de séjour is nothing but a residence card/permit. It has little or nothing to do with taking French nationality. Once resident in France, you do not renew your visa.

You cannot apply for French nationality until you have been married for at least 4 years to a French national - three of those years must be spent legally resident in France. Otherwise, you cannot apply for nationality until you've been married for 5 years.

And does the CDS have to be renewed every single year until...I die?

For your first year in France, the validated visa in your passport serves as your "carte de séjour" (i.e. resident permit). At the end of the year, you get an actual card for your CDS - usually one valid for multiple years. At some point, you get a carte de residente, which is a "permanent" resident card - valid for 10 years at a time, just like the carte d'identité that you get once you become a French citizen.

In my situation, from what I've been reading online, would I be looking for the CDS Vie Privée et Familiale?

Probably, yes - though you don't get to specify the type of CDS you get. It depends on what's in your dossier when you apply (and how the rules have or haven't changed by then). When you apply for a visa, you simply tell them that you are married to a French national, and provide the documents they ask for.
Cheers,
Bev

[Chitty]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

For your first year in France, the validated visa in your passport serves as your "carte de séjour" (i.e. resident permit). At the end of the year, you get an actual card for your CDS - usually one valid for multiple years. At some point, you get a carte de residente, which is a "permanent" resident card - valid for 10 years at a time, just like the carte d'identité that you get once you become a French citizen.

If you have arrived on a vie privie vie familiale visa you have to renew your cds every year for the first 5 years at your local prefecture. They issue you a cds which is valid for one year at a time until the end of the 5th year which is when they will then issue a 10 year cds. The only way that you get a cds which is valid for 10 or 15 yrs at the beginning is by claiming refugee status which is a different kettle of fish altogether...

The annual renewals are fairly smooth (except for the 4 hour que) as long as you go well prepared with all of the requirements and proof that you have done what is required from your side (i.e. DILF certificate, various certs of attendance for the many mini seminars OFII run etc etc)

[Jess2010]

I'm Australian and married a French man in Australia. We warned the French embassy in Sydney that we were going to get married and they sent us a letter with all the papers inside. We sent our Queensland marriage certificate with a form to the Sydney embassy to get them to register it in France so that its recognised there, they created us a family book (delivered 3 months later, because they sent it to the mairie in France, when i was living in Australia). We told them not to send it to France because we were not there and they did so anyway so be careful of that because they told me it is always sent to the mairie.

Once i had the family book i went to France and registered one month after i arrived with the OFII (max of 3 months is allowed apparently). They then sent me a convocation letter 2 weeks after i registered with them telling me that i have an appointment 1 month later to sign the CAI contract and for the medical and to make a date for the Formation civique and the vie en france sessions and also a date for the language thing.

You have to start to renew your CDS Vie Privée et Familiale 2 months or so before it expires, accompanied by all the certificates you get from the OFII from doing their training.

It was much easier to get married in my own country then it would have been to get married in France.

[AlTay]

It's been about a year and a half since I opened this thread, and now I'm back in research mode! I think I can honestly say I've read every thread on this forum and every subsequent reply to those threads regarding marrying a French citizen in the US before making the big move on a Long Stay Spouse Visa. (if being versed in all these procedures was analogous for speaking French, I'd be nearly fluent at this point!)

I've been making myself a rough guide to diving in to this long, grueling process and after all my reading, I STILL have a ton of questions! I know others are probably wondering about some of these things, which is why I don't feel SO awful that there are so many damn questions below.

*For the record, I live in Oregon which means I'll be reporting to the Consulate in San Francisco. My girlfriend currently lives in Paris but she grew up and is registered with the mairie in Verton (Nord-Pas de Calais region), which will come into play with one of these questions.

So, without further ado, any contribution to any of these questions would be greatly appreciated:

1. Is the concept of having a document like our Marriage License and Marriage Certificate apostilled specific only to France? Basically, will the county and state offices here even be familiar with it?
   
   
2. I will be contacting the state of Nebraska where I was born for a copy of my birth certificate which I’ve read needs to be apostilled. Does the apostille need to be applied by the issuing state of NE or by the state of OR where we will be married?
   
   
3. Does applying for the Livret de Famille require any sort of in-person appearance with the Consulate in SF?
   
   
4. Aside from the actual civil ceremony in OR, are there any other instances throughout this process where my to-be wife will need to make an appearance?
   
   
5. While the LdF is pending, am I responsible for coordinating with the Verton mairie the updating of my spouse’s birth records once we marry? Or is that something which is set into motion after I’ve applied for the LdF?
   
   
6. I’ve read conflicting stories about when I actually have to register with OFII in France: is it within the first three months of my arrival or is it about two months before my Long Stay Visa expires?
   
   
7. Should I expect to run into any problems with this whole process due to the fact that my girlfriend lives in Paris but her mairie is 2 hours away in Verton? As far as I’ve read so far, it doesn’t seem like I’ll need to make any visits to the mairie at all...can that really be so?
   
   
8. Does it matter which OFII location I go to/register with? If I have to deal with the location closest to the Verton mairie, that means driving 2.5 hours from Paris to Lille, rather than dealing with those OFII locations in Paris.
   
   
9. If I’m required to deal with the OFII in Lille, will they allow me to attend French language lessons and the Vie en France classes in Paris instead?
   
   
10. Can anyone clarify the purpose of the Contract of Integration? Does it require renewal? Is there a fee for renewal? If it must be renewed, for how long do I have to continue renewing it?
    
    
11. What, if any, of the documents in this process from the Publication des Bans through the Carte de Residente requires certified translating into French? I’ve heard translations can be pretty spendy!
    
    
12. Finally, I can’t find any place on the SF Consulate or OFII web sites which explicitly state how much applying for these documents costs, if anything. I realize that prices will vary with each Consulate, but I thought I’d get a ballpark so I know what’s coming:

    - each required document's apostille
    - Publication des Bans
    - the Livret de Famille itself
    - to initially register with the OFII
    - Carte de Sejour (perhaps the same 110eu cost to issue as with renewal?)
    - Carte de Identite
    - Carte de Residente

How did we ever manage to conquer this complex process before forums and the Internet?!