For all those coming to France

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by maria0301

Hi Parsnips, help what do we have to do then, I just thought we would be taxed by the Inland revenue. Thats what I have been informed. We are coming to France Jan 3rd for 1 year iniatially.

That first year may be the most complicated for you. There is a form you are supposed to file (I'm not British, so I'm not real familiar with the details here) to notify Inland Revenue that you are expatriating yourselves.

The trick is that you will still be subject to UK taxes for the UK tax year (that ends April 5th or there abouts), since you will have been resident more than half of that year in the UK. The French tax year begins January 1st, and so for 2009, you will be resident in France and thus subject to French taxes from 1 January.

There is a spot on the French tax forms for reporting income on which you have already paid taxes to another country. They will give you a tax credit for that, which will avoid the double taxation. After that initial year, you should probably be paying taxes solely to France (except for any investments you may have back in the UK).
Cheers,
Bev

[maria0301]

Hi Bev, thanks for that!!! Taxed twice, pound tumbling against the euro, and havent let out our house yet cos there is a glut of houses to let!! We must really want to come to France. Do we go to the Mairie to fill out the tax forms and are they in French? I speak French ok but not to do complicated tax forms. Gettinng quite worried now. Any help appreciated. Thanks.

[parsnips]

Originally Posted by maria0301

Hi Parsnips, help what do we have to do then, I just thought we would be taxed by the Inland revenue. Thats what I have been informed. We are coming to France Jan 3rd for 1 year iniatially.

"

Hi,
First of all don't worry , you'll almost certainly be better off (taxwise) in France.
Before you leave ,contact the Inland Revenue and ask for form P85 and the French "double taxation form". It will be less complicated if you say you are definitely NOT intending to return to the UK.
Complete the P85 as soon as you have a certain date of leaving UK. Keep the "double taxation" form.
Contact, now, the dept. of Work and Pensions and ask them for forms E121, bring these forms with you and, as soon as you arrive ,go to your local CPAM (health service office) and register them; this gets you onto the french health system.
You don't need to do anything about french tax until spring 2010, when you should go to your french tax office and obtain declaration forms 2042 and 2047, for declaring 2009 income .
You can ask for advice about filling these when the time comes.
During 2009 you will probably be taxed on your pensions in the UK but ,once you have taken your first french tax declaration -together with the completed "double taxation form"- to the tax office the process to transfer taxation from UK to France will begin(it will take some ,USUALLY due to the slow work by the UK office )
Eventually you will recieve a refund of all tax paid in the UK after the date you left.
If at any point you need further help you can get it on the forum or you could PM me.

[maria0301]

Hi Parsnips, thanks for that. I have been scouring the Inland Revenue website but not very helpful for our circumstances. Will ring IR and DWP tomorrow. If I want to PM you how do I do it? Oh God you are asking she cant even PM how willl she get on. Hubby doesnt even speak French!! Going to no.1 sons in Hastings for the day, will be back on here tonight. Thanks for your help. I certainly need it.
Maria

[parsnips]

Hi,
To PM click on "private messages " at top right under your name, then look down left side of page to find "private massage" section, click on "send new message", then write in normal way, don' t forget to put my forum name in address box. And keep calm! Things are less complicated than they seem at first.

[Bevdeforges]

The other way to PM is to simply click on parsnips' name in the upper left corner of any message of his on the board. Under the options you'll get will be "Send a private message to parsnips" - click on that and away you go!
Cheers,
Bev

[butear]

Thankyou Bev (Bevdeforges), for the info - very interesting to read about the local mairie (town hall). We have A home that we are rennovating, has involved having to chase the builder to complete the works - have sought advice on this forum about it, excelent it is to, but havent paid attention to the option of the Mairie, a few french phases learnt and time constraints (poor excuses really) when in france I have shyed away from introducing ourselves, Am I right in sayng that by going to the Mairie his influence, position may be able to influence the Buider ? Next trip over I shall make the effort to go there. Sam

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by butear

Thankyou Bev (Bevdeforges), for the info - very interesting to read about the local mairie (town hall). We have A home that we are rennovating, has involved having to chase the builder to complete the works - have sought advice on this forum about it, excelent it is to, but havent paid attention to the option of the Mairie, a few french phases learnt and time constraints (poor excuses really) when in france I have shyed away from introducing ourselves, Am I right in sayng that by going to the Mairie his influence, position may be able to influence the Buider ? Next trip over I shall make the effort to go there. Sam

Nothing is guaranteed - chances are you'll deal primarily with the fonctionnaires at the mairie, but since they process the paperwork, making friends with them certainly can't hurt. Same can be said for at least getting to know your mayor (le maire) if he's a decent sort.

There are plenty of completely worthless mayors in small towns all over France. As well as those who are concerned with the reputation of their town and the well being of their residents.

If the builder is local, chances are someone close to him may work in the mairie (wife, brother, who know?). Go cautiously at first when telling folks about your problem, and take the stance that you're worried that your house may violate the conditions of the building permit and get everyone in trouble. When you see how they react to who your builder is, you can improvise from there.
Cheers,
Bev

[frogblogger]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

Nothing is guaranteed - chances are you'll deal primarily with the fonctionnaires at the mairie, but since they process the paperwork, making friends with them certainly can't hurt. Same can be said for at least getting to know your mayor (le maire) if he's a decent sort.

There are plenty of completely worthless mayors in small towns all over France. As well as those who are concerned with the reputation of their town and the well being of their residents.

If the builder is local, chances are someone close to him may work in the mairie (wife, brother, who know?). Go cautiously at first when telling folks about your problem, and take the stance that you're worried that your house may violate the conditions of the building permit and get everyone in trouble. When you see how they react to who your builder is, you can improvise from there.
Cheers,
Bev

In my opinion it's worth getting to know the mayor whether or not he's a decent sort. One of the main errors Brits make when coming to France is assuming that there are national laws that apply irrespective of all and any other considerations. The actual situation belies this assumption - in France there is French legislation and then there are the local ways things are done. The mayor - even in tiny villages - wields power considerably in excess of the UK equivalent, and it is always worth getting on his/her good side. In fact I reckon this applies especially in the small communities in remote areas.

However in my humble opinion the last thing to do is contact the mairie about building work in progress***. The situation is very simple with respect to renovation work. If the house is not subject to any special conservation orders, then assuming you have a competent builder you can carry out pretty much any internal work you like. However anything that implies modification to the exterior of the building - even putting in new windows and the like, if they are larger than the originals - requires planning permission.

It's easy to find a builder that doesn't bother and will carry out work regardless, especially for cash, but if a competitor or unhappy neighbour finds out, you can find yourself with an order from the authorities to put things back as they were in no time.

Edit *** What I mean by this is that you must first establish exactly what your situation is, because if your builder has been carrying out work that should be the subject of planning permission then as soon as you talk to the mairie you are putting things on an official footing and effectively declaring that both you and the builder have been working illegally. This will mean that your builder will not be a happy bunny at all, he will then deny all responsibility, and you as contractor are legally responsible anyway whatever (deniable) 'advice' your builder may or may not have given you.

Edit 2 - I know the above doesn't apply to Butear's position, his was a different problem I remember there was discussion of recently. But for those who didn't follow that thread then I thought it important to point out the above.......

[Bevdeforges]

Building permits are a particularly fraught issue in France. Most folks don't bother with them unless absolutely necessary, and then when they do, they usually wish they hadn't. (At least that has been my experience here.)

And as you say, it can depend entirely on the town or village you live in. We're seeing a big change in the mairie in our town after a change in the mayor and ruling party.
Cheers,
Bev