confusing inheritance laws

[charlie 123]

i am a widow and am very confused with the inheritance laws as seems my notaire , my husbands two children from a previous relationship whom we have not seen for many many years have renounced their part of inheritance, we have now been informed by our notaire that it is now up to his children of 5yrs. 12yrs and 14yrs to renounce, they explained that they did not know of this law until now, they have to renounce in front of a judge in England, as it has taken them a year to renounce their part, its seems almost impossible to arrange for them to do all this in England, and them not really wanting to bother, and not pay any legal fees to do this. It seems ridiculous that he cant sign on there behalf. Please could you advise me as i seem to have lost all confidence in my Notaire
Has anybody else had the same experience

[Bevdeforges]

The French inheritance laws are actually quite simple. The kids inherit everything! And until a couple years ago, spouses could not inherit anything from each other unless a "donation entre époux" had been set up in advance.

I take it this is a second (or more) marriage for you both. And it sounds like you have no children together. OK - under normal circumstances, his children get 75% of his estate and you get 25%. You can't change any of that with a will - it's just the way it is.

I was under the impression that you couldn't ask any heirs to renounce their portions until after the person had died, but I could be wrong on that. It's not clear from your message if you're dividing up the estate after your husband's death or if this is just "estate planning" and your husband is still around. In any event, it sounds like he has a total of 5 children. Given that two have already renounced, that sets up the remaining three to split the 75% portion amongst themselves - so they each get a bigger share. This might explain the delay in renouncing.

Because the three children in England are minors, they have to renounce in front of a judge, although a parent can do this for them. (Officially it is supposed to be done in the court in the jurisdiction in which the defunt was living at the time of his death.) However, the defunt (or defunt-to-be in the case of estate planning) can't be the one to say - yeah, sure, my kids don't want to inherit anything from me. What you may be up against is an ex-wife stalling so as not to miss out on an inheritance for the kids. They actually retain their rights to accept the inheritance or to defer their decision until an inventory is conducted (so they can see if there are any significant debt they'd be inheriting along with the assets).

It's a tricky system here - but unfortunately there is no way around it. Even a "donation" has to adhere to the basic rules, which boil down to "the second wife gets no more than 25% unless ALL the kids from the prior relationships renounce."

I know I was really upset when I learned about the inheritance laws here. (Similar situation - second wife, with kids from his prior marriage who we haven't heard from in years.) Only took me about 10 years to reconcile myself to the way things are - and I doubt there's any chance of getting my husband's two to renounce when the time comes. But like my DH is fond of saying, he's not planning on going first, so I may be spared the whole drama.
Cheers,
Bev

[charlie 123]

Hello Bev Thank you for your reply. My husband died 1 year ago, he has two children from a previous marriage and we have a daughter in her twenties.
I own half of the estate and i understand that i own 25% of my late husabnd's half. His two sons have renounced, my daughter had to accept their renouciation on their behalf in front of a "greffier". So thinking that was all sorted we went the same day to the notaire to finalise everything. But to our suprise she announced (after over six months!!!!) that as one son had three children (all under age) they would also have to renounce in front of a judge in England. Which he wont be bothered to do. He is saying that it is too complicated in England and costly. As i intend to sell my house next year and hope to downsize and live on the capital as i'm a pensioner with no savings, i want it sorted before i sell.
Do you know how it can be sorted in england is it that complicated? and costly?
Is their anyone i can contact for information in England, because i have lived in france for quite a while and i don't know how it works in England.( Not that i know how it works in France either even our notaire doesn't seem to!!!!)

I would be very gratefull of any information, advice or your opinion.

Thanks again

Joy

[Bevdeforges]

From what I've read, the son with the children should be able to renounce the inheritance for them (as they are minors) - however, it has to be done before a judge (so that the judge is assured that this is not counter to the children's interests). It's his portion of the inheritance that he is renouncing in their names and I would have thought that his initial renunciation would have been enough - but the French are remarkably weird when it comes to inheritance matters.

Unfortunately I don't know how any of this works in the UK. You might try pushing back a bit on the notaire to ask why exactly the son's renunciation isn't sufficient. It sounds to me a bit like the notaire is just "covering her posterior" - and if pressed, might find a way around the problem. (She doesn't get paid until the estate settles... perhaps she needs to be reminded of that fact.)

When my husband was settling his mother's estate with his sisters, I came along to the notaire just to see how these things were done here. I wound up correcting the notaire on at least two matters she seemed "confused" about. Try dumping the problem back in her lap and see what solution she can find. (Just say the son has already renounced and "refuses" to go back to court to renounce on behalf of the kids... see how she reacts.)
Cheers,
Bev

[charlie 123]

thanks Bev you have been a great help, i will follow your advice

[giantpanda]

Hi!

See PM.

Yours,

giantpanda