Wills............ a NIGHTMARE

[ENIGMA]

This is a subject which should concern us all but gives me a headache every time my wife 22 years my junior brings it up.I have a house in France and 2 old farm houses in the Algarve.To complicate matters further 2 kids from a relationship in France with a English woman,all still living there.Also 3 grown up children in the Uk from a previous relationship and 2 children from my current marriage.

I assume I need a will from each country? Also am I right in assuming under French inheritance laws the French property goes to all the children and not the spouse?What about Portuguese inheritance laws? Even if I had drawn up English,French and Portuguese wills,I assume my wife and children in the event of my death would have to travel to France and Portugal to sign papers etc ?

And if I don't make any wills,what happens then?

I appreciate that some of these questions are difficult for anyone to answer,but surely they do affect us all on this forum to some extent,so I would appreciate any input or comments.

[suninspired]

Holy Smokes! Yours is a complicated one!

Can't comment on Portugal at all. But it would be wise to have wills for each country.

A UK will covers your UK property. Perhaps a Portuguese will covers Portuguese property or perhaps it will be similar to a French will, which has some standing but will remain secondary to French Succession Law which takes precedence.

Under French succession law (regardless of a will) the French estate is divided amongst the children, with the remaining spouse at the back of the line. And the percentage of your French estate all depends on the number of "blood" children you have. If you had one child, that child would have right to 1/3rd the estate on your passing. Two children = 2/3rds, three = 3/4s. Surviving spouse gets the remainder. If you pass away it's only your "blood" children that inherit, but that includes ALL your "blood" children whether they be in France, the UK or wherever in the world.

If your spouse passes before you, it is her "blood" children (and your 2 children from your current union) that have inheritance rights to your French estate.

There are numerous complicated ways to ensure the French property goes to the surviving spouse - buying "en tontine" is one of them, but you can only place the en-tontine clause in the contract when you purchase. And the "en-tontine" cluase prejudices against the heirs of the spouse who passes first. If you have substantial French property, correct planning is critical because going the wrong route could end up with some heirs paying the exhorbitant 60% inheritance taxes when proper planning would have exempted them.

There are other ways to plan - for example, changing your marriage state. It is complicated enough as it is without the further complications your extended family presents.

Your Portuguese property is excluded from French law so you might find it easier planning to leave the French property to your 7 heirs (plus spouse) and juggling a balancing act with the Portuguese estate amongst your heirs as well.

I suspect that Portugal is more closely aligned with English law as regards wills but you really should seek professional advice because French succession law is complicated and your situation is more complex than most.

Simply googling "French Succession Law" will yield plenty of information to ponder, but you'd do well to get professional advice (and I don't mean from a Notaire who most likely wouldn't fully comprehend your more complicated family situation).

[Bevdeforges]

To add a bit to the reply from suninspired: A huge factor in all this is your legal residence at the time of your death. If you are living in France at the time of your death, French law takes precedent - except for real (i.e. immovable) property located outside France, where local law takes over.

Now, French law changed a few years back so that your spouse can inherit from you - however the spouse's share in cases where there are two or more children from a prior relationship is limited to 25% of the estate. There are also some rules now that protect the surviving spouse's right to remain in the family home, no matter who inherits it.

The fact of the matter is that you may not need (or want) to bother with a will in France. There are distinct limits to what you can do with a will, given the "forced inheritance" laws here. You may be able to make some adjustments to who gets what and in what form by consulting a notaire and drawing up a donation entre époux or adjusting your marital regime (though be advised, changing marital regimes is an expensive proposition).

However, if you're resident in the UK at the time of your death, your UK will handles all your assets except for the houses located outside the UK.
Cheers,
Bev

[parsnips]

Hi,
If you can confirm where you are, or expect to be, resident, I will have a go at your french and UK situation. There are certainly measures you can take to protect your present wife.

[Elphaba]

Do NOT write different wills for each country. Remember the phrase 'last will & testament' ? It essentially means that the last willl to be made is the only valid one.

Are you British? I assume you are from the way you write. If so, you are likely to be UK domiciled and thus subject to UK Inheritance tax on worldwide assets.

You need ONE will set up to cover assets in different countries, as well as your personal arrangements. You need a lawyer who can deal with the rules in different countries - not someone who has been on a will writing course. Your situation is somplex , but can be dealt with. Your will can then be legally translated into other languages (& attested) where you own property.

If you don't sort out a proper will you will leave a huge headache for your family and I am sure you don't want that.

-

Residence is certainly key. It's a while back, but I'm sure I remember my (British) parents being advised, on moving to France in 1995, that after two years in France they would be considered permanently resident for inheritance tax purposes - after which French law takes precedence over UK law.

[ENIGMA]

Originally Posted by Elphaba

Do NOT write different wills for each country. Remember the phrase 'last will & testament' ? It essentially means that the last willl to be made is the only valid one.

Are you British? I assume you are from the way you write. If so, you are likely to be UK domiciled and thus subject to UK Inheritance tax on worldwide assets.

You need ONE will set up to cover assets in different countries, as well as your personal arrangements. You need a lawyer who can deal with the rules in different countries - not someone who has been on a will writing course. Your situation is somplex , but can be dealt with. Your will can then be legally translated into other languages (& attested) where you own property.

If you don't sort out a proper will you will leave a huge headache for your family and I am sure you don't want that.

-

Thanks everyone for your input,I was surprised at so many detailed replies,so quick.Interesting thought about inheritance tax,will have to look further into that one.Yes I am British and since originally posting,I have done some Googling and would tend to agree with Ephabla that making only a English will with a good lawyer experienced in dealing with oversea estates is the only way to go.

[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by frogblogger

Residence is certainly key. It's a while back, but I'm sure I remember my (British) parents being advised, on moving to France in 1995, that after two years in France they would be considered permanently resident for inheritance tax purposes - after which French law takes precedence over UK law.

Not that simple. Domicile is a very strong concept under British law and cannot just change. It is different from residency.If your parents sever all ties with Britain they can apply for a change of domicile, but it would take more than a couple of years out of the UK for that to happen.

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[Elphaba]

Originally Posted by ENIGMA

Thanks everyone for your input,I was surprised at so many detailed replies,so quick.Interesting thought about inheritance tax,will have to look further into that one.Yes I am British and since originally posting,I have done some Googling and would tend to agree with Ephabla that making only a English will with a good lawyer experienced in dealing with oversea estates is the only way to go.

That is exactly what you need to do.

I advise expats living in the UAE on these issues on a professional basis and the rules are similar for all Brits living overseas.

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[coloma gold]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

To add a bit to the reply from suninspired: A huge factor in all this is your legal residence at the time of your death. If you are living in France at the time of your death, French law takes precedent - except for real (i.e. immovable) property located outside France, where local law takes over.

Now, French law changed a few years back so that your spouse can inherit from you - however the spouse's share in cases where there are two or more children from a prior relationship is limited to 25% of the estate. There are also some rules now that protect the surviving spouse's right to remain in the family home, no matter who inherits it.

The fact of the matter is that you may not need (or want) to bother with a will in France. There are distinct limits to what you can do with a will, given the "forced inheritance" laws here. You may be able to make some adjustments to who gets what and in what form by consulting a notaire and drawing up a donation entre époux or adjusting your marital regime (though be advised, changing marital regimes is an expensive proposition).

However, if you're resident in the UK at the time of your death, your UK will handles all your assets except for the houses located outside the UK.
Cheers,
Bev

Bev,

Another question (hopefully a lot simpler)... American Citizen living in France with no real property dies in France. Wife (American citizen) living with him prior to death but adult son in America.. I assume the American laws prevail on assets (in accord with the will that is prepared in USA)?