Long Term Visa without Work Permit... possible?

scottcr1 · #1 (**permalink**) 22nd October 2009, 03:52 PM

I am a US citizen would like to move to France for 1 year (without working for a French company).
I can provide proof of financial means during the 1 year period.
I am of "working age" and have a Masters degree.
I would like to move to France with my girlfriend who is NOT French but is an EU citizen and will be seeking work in France.

What are the odds of getting this type of visa? I am thinking we can go (I would be on a 90 day "tourist visa") and she can sign a lease for an appartment and then I could use the lease for the visa application (applying in Spain or UK or similar).
Thanks for any help!

Bevdeforges · #2 (**permalink**) 22nd October 2009, 04:23 PM

OK, what you want to do isn't entirely impossible, but you probably shouldn't try for it the way you're planning to do so.

The problem is that, if you're over there on a 90 day tourist visa, you can't change visa types without going back to the US. You have to file your visa application for a long-stay visa from the consulate that covers the area in which you are legally resident. After 90 days in France, you won't have residency status in either Spain or the UK (or in any other EU state for that matter). You would need a valid visa in the country from which you are applying - and even then, you'd have to prove your residence there.

To get a long-stay visa without a work permit, you have to convince the French authorities (i.e. the consulate and the department in France that processes the paperwork) that you have some valid reason to be in France without working (researching a book? studying something French? etc.), and of course that you have the means to support yourself without resorting to French public services.

France doesn't usually recognize unmarried or un-PACS'd couples so unless you were thinking of tying the knot, your girlfriend's EU nationality probably won't do you any good.
Cheers,
Bev

scottcr1 · #3 (**permalink**) 22nd October 2009, 04:41 PM

Re: my girlfriend... I was pretty sure it would not factor into the visa app except for making the whole apartment lease easier and getting it established even before applying for the visa...

I was unaware of the need to apply in your home country. I have applied for visas in other (EU) countries and they simply require you to apply at a foreign consulate. Is this unique to France?

So from what I gather, I still need a good reason to want to be in France. I wouldn't mind enrolling in a 2x per week language course, would that be enough?

Joppa · #4 (**permalink**) 22nd October 2009, 05:09 PM

Basically, France (and most European countries) don't really want people to stay long term (longer than 90 days) without working or running a business for which they have a permit in France. OK, exceptions are made for millionaires and Arab oil sheiks, but presumptions are people who apply to do what you contemplate are really trying to work illegally or engage in clandestine self-employment. So they make you jump through hoops to demonstrate a legitimate reason to be in France, have medical coverage (as you won't be eligible for French public health service), solid means of support without working (e.g. savings, pensions, investments; working for US employer online will not be allowed), often criminal record clearance and medical certificate showing you are free from drug addiction, mental illness or communicable diseases. And as Bev has said, your application will be processed by some civil servants in France, not by the embassy/consular staff, though you have to apply in the country of nationality or usual residence. It can take months for the visa to come through, and it's by no means certain one will be granted, as they have complete discretion in issuing it or not.

frogblogger · #5 (**permalink**) 22nd October 2009, 06:39 PM

Even if you were married to the non-French EU citizen, it still wouldn't be easy. In such cases the EU citizen has to prove he/she has sufficient means to support you. For a job-seeker that would be very difficult to do.

Joppa · #6 (**permalink**) 22nd October 2009, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottcr1

So from what I gather, I still need a good reason to want to be in France. I wouldn't mind enrolling in a 2x per week language course, would that be enough?

It needs to be full-time study, usually reckoned to be a minimum of 15 hours a week in organised lessons, and you have to show evidence of having paid your initial fees (for the first term or semester, say).

Bevdeforges · #7 (**permalink**) 22nd October 2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottcr1

I was unaware of the need to apply in your home country. I have applied for visas in other (EU) countries and they simply require you to apply at a foreign consulate. Is this unique to France?

They have gotten stricter about this in the last couple of years - maybe particularly for France, but AFAIK it's now SOP for most EU countries. I guess they caught on to the old "hop over the border after your 90 days are up" trick.

It may also have to do with Schengen, since border crossings within the Schengen region are kind of a non-event these days.
Cheers,
Bev

scottcr1 · #8 (**permalink**) 23rd October 2009, 03:33 PM

I currently have a student visa (EU but not France) that expires soon. As such, it would be difficult to apply in the US.. maybe since I already have a visa I could apply outside the US, not sure.

As for the application itself... it sounds like a 6 month, nonworking visa is easier to obtain(?)... can you "renew" this? As for the "reason of stay" do people often just say "for researching a book" etc? Do you have to prove this somehow?

I presume attempting to form a business or state that you are a independent contract worker / entrepreneur is a huge ordeal, right?

Bevdeforges · #9 (**permalink**) 23rd October 2009, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottcr1

I currently have a student visa (EU but not France) that expires soon. As such, it would be difficult to apply in the US.. maybe since I already have a visa I could apply outside the US, not sure.

I suspect it would depend on your residency status in whatever country you're in (and have the visa for). Students are normally only considered "temporarily" resident and that might not be enough. But you can always ask at the nearest French consulate.

Quote:

As for the application itself... it sounds like a 6 month, nonworking visa is easier to obtain(?)... can you "renew" this? As for the "reason of stay" do people often just say "for researching a book" etc? Do you have to prove this somehow?

Not sure if the 6 month non-working visa is any "easier" to obtain. It usually comes down to what "reason for coming to France" you give. "Researching a book" does go much more smoothly if you have some publication credits to your name or a book contract or something else that can back up your reason. Just about any reason you give will be subject to some form of documents "proving" your case.

Quote:

I presume attempting to form a business or state that you are a independent contract worker / entrepreneur is a huge ordeal, right?

"Independent contract worker" would require you to actually establish your business presence in France - which makes it a working visa - as would "forming a business" or "entrepreneur." Chances are for the last two you'd need at least a solid business plan to submit as evidence of what you plan to do - with confirmation of your funding.
Cheers,
Bev

Joppa · #10 (**permalink**) 23rd October 2009, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottcr1

I presume attempting to form a business or state that you are a independent contract worker / entrepreneur is a huge ordeal, right?

Yes, you will then be subject to regulations for a business person or enterpreneur (effectively ploughing millions into French economy and creating jobs for locals), or work permit (difficult to obtain as they want to preserve jobs for the French, including contract work).