French Ettiquette

[frogblogger]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

While use of the word "merde" does appear to be somewhat more casual in France than its anglo-saxon equivalent, I can say from experience that you should avoid the word at all costs. I think there is something to its use by a "foreigner" (and you will always be a foreigner in France) that transcends any other cultural acceptance of the term.
Cheers,
Bev

Yes from most expats it sounds a bit contrived. The bilingual, or close to, can get away with it though. It's not that bad an expression in certain circumstances, and younger generations often use it in a manner so as to lose most offensive significance. You are unlikely to hear it from senior citizens - inbetween is a grey area.

Thinking about it, there's a difference in usage between North America and the UK - as with many other Anglo Saxon swear words. Its equivalent can be used almost inoffensively in the UK too, depending on the situation/company.

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by frogblogger

Thinking about it, there's a difference in usage between North America and the UK - as with many other Anglo Saxon swear words. Its equivalent can be used almost inoffensively in the UK too, depending on the situation/company.

There are also "near equivalents" that can be used pretty much with impunity in the British Isles - witness the ever-popular Irish near-equivalent that was in constant use in the series Father Ted.

But I let fly with a "merde" during a particularly exasperating session at the board meeting of our "newcomers group." You know how the French tend to talk all at once during meetings... and I figured it would at least shut every up so we could get back on topic.

Well, it definitely shut everyone up - and immediately changed the topic to the "appropriateness" of language on my part. OK, it was an older crowd (older than me, and mostly retirees) but even my British friend on the board swore that she NEVER uses that term in English - though she was a kindergarten teacher, so no surprise there. (Note for another thread, another time on "things I miss in France": Swearing!!!)
Cheers,
Bev

[Coton90]

Use of the word was also more casual in Germany as well, although I never used "schiese" in mixed company. "Mist" (manure) was perfectly acceptable.

[minesthechevy]

This could explain why Rolls-Royce didn't sell too many of their 'Silver Mist' model in the german market.......

Originally Posted by Coton90

"Mist" (manure) was perfectly acceptable.

[Coton90]

Originally Posted by minesthechevy

This could explain why Rolls-Royce didn't sell too many of their 'Silver Mist' model in the german market.......

You may have something there

[Matou]

Hello all,
here is my little contribution...

- As to "polite" words to be used instead of merde:
I suggest "flute" and "zut" or "crotte", the last one being less posh that the others.

- As to table manners:
to respect one's national manners is acceptable, French do percfectly know that their ones are quite complicated (when respected correctly) and will forgive a foreigner's "faux pas". If you want to make a try with the local good manners, for instance during a special occasion when etiquette is less relaxed, the clue is to keep your eyes open and do the same as the hostess (i.e. look at what fork she uses, etc...).

- As to attitudes that are sometimes perceived rude by the French:
Try to avoid to ask too personal questions if you are not reasonably familiar with the person, also try to avoid subjects like money and religion unless the subject is already "sur la table" (discussed) and you feel like participating to a typical French "artistically controversial" hot discussion (someting generally appreciated by the French). Lastly, try to avoid to look too friendly if you don't feel friendly, the usual "I am your friend" face is often considered as hypocrital (you could also be considerred loony or "marking a special intrest to the person" if not of the same gender...)

Cheers

[Coton90]

Originally Posted by Matou

Hello all,
here is my little contribution...

- As to "polite" words to be used instead of merde:
I suggest "flute" and "zut" or "crotte", the last one being less posh that the others.

- As to table manners:
to respect one's national manners is acceptable, French do percfectly know that their ones are quite complicated (when respected correctly) and will forgive a foreigner's "faux pas". If you want to make a try with the local good manners, for instance during a special occasion when etiquette is less relaxed, the clue is to keep your eyes open and do the same as the hostess (i.e. look at what fork she uses, etc...).

- As to attitudes that are sometimes perceived rude by the French:
Try to avoid to ask too personal questions if you are not reasonably familiar with the person, also try to avoid subjects like money and religion unless the subject is already "sur la table" (discussed) and you feel like participating to a typical French "artistically controversial" hot discussion (someting generally appreciated by the French). Lastly, try to avoid to look too friendly if you don't feel friendly, the usual "I am your friend" face is often considered as hypocrital (you could also be considerred loony or "marking a special intrest to the person" if not of the same gender...)

Cheers

Sitting in on numerous discussions with my French In-Laws, it's best to avoid politics as well; especially when the participants are on opposite ends of the political spectrum.

[frogblogger]

Originally Posted by Coton90

Sitting in on numerous discussions with my French In-Laws, it's best to avoid politics as well; especially when the participants are on opposite ends of the political spectrum.

Rugby can be a no-no too... especially during the Six Nations where all the Anglo-Saxon referees apparently have an anti-French bias (except when the French win).

The French have yet to understand that there's nothing a Scotsman, Irishman or Welshman likes more than to see the English beaten, even by the French

[Dutch1976]

Originally Posted by minesthechevy

When you get familar enough to greet females by kissing on the cheeks, do it with about 10% of the force you first think of - teh english always do it with way too much gusto to begin with.

Ask me how I know that....

By contrast, a firm handshake between blokes is always required - something that's quite difficult when you're missing most of the muscles of your right hand.

Ask me how I know that....

How do you know that?

[Musician]

>alternatives to "enchanté" as the equivalent to "pleased to meet you"

I've been in France for 7 months and never heard any other phrases used; "enchanté" seems to do nicely. After all, you're not likely to have to repeat it to the same person so they won't get bored!

BTW, if someone wishes you a good day or whatever and you want to say "and the same to you" then "egalement" seems to do nicely. [The first 'e' has an acute accent but I've no idea how do do that here; the accent's on the second syllable.]

It's really nice to know that someone's concerned with basic courtesy - do I sound too much like an old grouch if I say there's not enough of that about these days?

Best wishes,

'Musician'

PS I rather think I've made a lot of faux pas, including using a phrase for a while that I thought meant 'I don't mind' but in fact means 'B***** off!'.... I wondered why I was getting funny looks and conversation would stop dead! Still, I don't seem to have lost any friends over it, and as all my friends are French I figure they forgive me my foreign foibles.......