Selling a property with only part of the familly agreeing

[Nick]

My neighbour left her house to her 3 children, she no longer lives in it but her grandaughter rents it. The grandaughter wants to buy the house from the three aunts (two are sisters and one is the wife of the now dead brother), she, the sister in law doesn't want to sell for such a low price (she wants her children to have more of an inheiritance. She also lives in Paris and this property is in Brittany)
Did I read somewhere that you now only need two thirds to agree to a sale?
We have a vested interest as we want to buy a small piece of their land and the ones that live here are agreed we can buy it.

Anyone with any knowledge on this subject?

Nick

[parsnips]

Originally Posted by Nick

My neighbour left her house to her 3 children, she no longer lives in it but her grandaughter rents it. The grandaughter wants to buy the house from the three aunts (two are sisters and one is the wife of the now dead brother), she, the sister in law doesn't want to sell for such a low price (she wants her children to have more of an inheiritance. She also lives in Paris and this property is in Brittany)
Did I read somewhere that you now only need two thirds to agree to a sale?
We have a vested interest as we want to buy a small piece of their land and the ones that live here are agreed we can buy it.

Anyone with any knowledge on this subject?

Nick

Hi,
The 2/3 majority rule applies to various decisions regarding the management of a house in indivision, but not to the sale, which still requires unanimity.

( Art. 815-3 Code Civil ,as amended 01/01/2007. )

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by Nick

My neighbour left her house to her 3 children, she no longer lives in it but her grandaughter rents it. The grandaughter wants to buy the house from the three aunts (two are sisters and one is the wife of the now dead brother), she, the sister in law doesn't want to sell for such a low price (she wants her children to have more of an inheiritance. She also lives in Paris and this property is in Brittany)
Did I read somewhere that you now only need two thirds to agree to a sale?
We have a vested interest as we want to buy a small piece of their land and the ones that live here are agreed we can buy it.

Anyone with any knowledge on this subject?

Nick

Assuming your neighbour is dead and the 3 children inherited the house in indivision, there's nothing you can do. The last third of the house actually belongs to the children of the dead brother - not to his wife. Though, if the children are underage, their mother controls their interest in the house in their name.

If the children of the deceased brother were adults, you'd have to get the agreement of each one of them for the sale before the property could be sold. (Though it would eliminate the influence of the sister-in-law.)

French inheritance law is a real mind blower to us anglo-saxon types.
Cheers,
Bev

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

Assuming your neighbour is dead and the 3 children inherited the house in indivision, there's nothing you can do. The last third of the house actually belongs to the children of the dead brother - not to his wife. Though, if the children are underage, their mother controls their interest in the house in their name.

If the children of the deceased brother were adults, you'd have to get the agreement of each one of them for the sale before the property could be sold. (Though it would eliminate the influence of the sister-in-law.)

French inheritance law is a real mind blower to us anglo-saxon types.
Cheers,
Bev

Thanks Parsnip and Bev for your replies.
Just as a matter of interest, the mother (grandmother) is still living, does this change anything? Clutching at straws here. I would think in English law it more than likely wouldn't.

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by Nick

Thanks Parsnip and Bev for your replies.
Just as a matter of interest, the mother (grandmother) is still living, does this change anything? Clutching at straws here. I would think in English law it more than likely wouldn't.

I was wondering about that from the way you had phrased your question.

It would depend upon exactly what sort of donation she had made to her children. Some donations are revocable and if so, she could revoke the donation, sell the property as she likes and then the money will go to her kids (or her kid's kids) when she dies.

If the donation wasn't revocable, I doubt there is anything she can do.

The catch to all of it is that if she is selling to her granddaughter at a bargain price, the other heirs can come back later saying this was an early distribution of the estate (at least to the extent of the "discount" accorded the granddaughter). It can get pretty complicated.
Cheers,
Bev

[Bevdeforges]

One other potentially major complication is that if "Grandma's house" used to be "Grandma and Grandpa's house" the three children already have inherited Grandpa's half interest in the house. That won't be changeable under any circumstances.

If all the parties to the indivision would agree to form an SCI, where they would own shares in the property rather than their current arrangement, the shareholders could try to buy out the sister-in-law's shares (presumably at a price she would accept) and then sell the property to the granddaughter. But, depending on whose daughter the granddaughter is, there could still be the same risk of someone in the family objecting to the deal as a premature distribution of the estate (i.e. Grandma's remaining interest in the house).
Cheers,
Bev

[Matou]

To be exact according to Art. 815 of the Civil code: "Nul ne peut être contraint à demeurer dans l'indivision et le partage peut toujours être provoqué, à moins qu'il n'y ait été sursis par jugement ou convention." That means that anyone part in an indivision (whatever his/her share) can go to Court to "get out" (i.e. force the sale to recup the value of his/her part). This is a very solid right and the Court should not refuse it unless it is abused (e.g. to cause harm) but keep in mind that, in practice, it will probably take quite a long time to obtain satisfaction...

[Matou]

In our case, each "indivisaire" is absolutely free to sell his/her part of the property without the consent of the others. The sale will be valid but "inopposable" to any other dissenting "indivisaire" until the "partage" is efficient. In this respect you can refer to the following decision (Cour de cassation 15 juin 1994) Détail d'une jurisprudence judiciaire
Any member of the familly agreeing to sell to the grandaughter could do it for their share (or simply draft a "promesse de vente" for their share as the Cour de cassation also agrees that such a contract is perfectly valid Détail d'une jurisprudence judiciaire).
At the end of the day the aunt would only be able to control the price of her own share (if any) and the share of her children until they reach 18. The fact that the sale would not be "opposable" to the aunt should not be considered as a real trouble because it will be "opposable" to the rest of the world. The aunt would remain in position to ask "partage" to the Court but she would only be able to recup "her" share, eventually at market price (with the advice of an expert)...

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Matou

In our case, each "indivisaire" is absolutely free to sell his/her part of the property without the consent of the others. The sale will be valid but "inopposable" to any other dissenting "indivisaire" until the "partage" is efficient. In this respect you can refer to the following decision (Cour de cassation 15 juin 1994) Détail d'une jurisprudence judiciaire
Any member of the familly agreeing to sell to the grandaughter could do it for their share (or simply draft a "promesse de vente" for their share as the Cour de cassation also agrees that such a contract is perfectly valid Détail d'une jurisprudence judiciaire).
At the end of the day the aunt would only be able to control the price of her own share (if any) and the share of her children until they reach 18. The fact that the sale would not be "opposable" to the aunt should not be considered as a real trouble because it will be "opposable" to the rest of the world. The aunt would remain in position to ask "partage" to the Court but she would only be able to recup "her" share, eventually at market price (with the advice of an expert)...

Thank you all for your replies, I shall pass on this info and see whats happens. I think the grandaughter will have to buy at a more realistic price unless her mother and her mothers sister agree to let her pay them less and the other aunt receives her full share for her children...we shall see.
Thank you all once again.