How immigration determines the finances needed for a retirement visa

[Traveler123]

I've read about the retirement visa (long-stay visa) for France and the section on finances is vague, i.e., no minimum specific amount is given. Here is what is stated:
"Financial guarantee such as: letter from bank showing you have sufficient means to live in France, and/or justification of retirement pensions or incomes." Without a specific amount, how would an applicant know what immigration would consider acceptable and what is not. Any suggestions?

Also, the requirements state that the applicant needs to prove employment in the country of residence. This would not be relevant is retired.

[Bevdeforges]

When I was working for a somewhat "avant garde" computer company, we had a standard included on our evaluation forms for "tolerance of ambiguity." If you're planning on coming to France, you had better have that in spades! The finances section of the visa requirements is only the start.

The visas in France aren't really broken down into categories the way they are in the US. There is no "retirement" visa as such. What you're looking at is a "visa with no working privileges" which means that you have to have income resources adequate (in the estimation of the fonctionnaire who handles your dossier) to live reasonably without being tempted to take a job on the sly. And, you also have to give a reason for coming to France without working that sounds plausible. "Retirement" is fine - provided you are retirement age and have some source of income.

The websites of several of the French consulates in the US have suggested minimum figures, but if you read carefully, these figures are not definitive. They are perfectly capable of approving an application where someone has less than the amount cited - and rejecting one where the person is making well above that figure. And they don't actually have to give you a reason if they reject your application, though they often do.

I suspect that what they may mean about proving employment in the country of residence is proof of your prior employment (i.e. that led to your having the pension you are basing your application upon). The US system of self-save retirement funds makes things a little bit trickier.
Cheers,
Bev

[Traveler123]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

When I was working for a somewhat "avant garde" computer company, we had a standard included on our evaluation forms for "tolerance of ambiguity." If you're planning on coming to France, you had better have that in spades! The finances section of the visa requirements is only the start.

The visas in France aren't really broken down into categories the way they are in the US. There is no "retirement" visa as such. What you're looking at is a "visa with no working privileges" which means that you have to have income resources adequate (in the estimation of the fonctionnaire who handles your dossier) to live reasonably without being tempted to take a job on the sly. And, you also have to give a reason for coming to France without working that sounds plausible. "Retirement" is fine - provided you are retirement age and have some source of income.

The websites of several of the French consulates in the US have suggested minimum figures, but if you read carefully, these figures are not definitive. They are perfectly capable of approving an application where someone has less than the amount cited - and rejecting one where the person is making well above that figure. And they don't actually have to give you a reason if they reject your application, though they often do.

I suspect that what they may mean about proving employment in the country of residence is proof of your prior employment (i.e. that led to your having the pension you are basing your application upon). The US system of self-save retirement funds makes things a little bit trickier.
Cheers,
Bev

Thanks, Bev. This is helpful. I'll check the US consulate for France near where I live in the US. Yes, immigration and visa issues are often "gray" and not black and white as you suggest; however, many countries do list a minimum amount of $$ for a nonworking or retirement visa, if they offer one. I appreciate your information and do understand the need for tolerating ambiguity.....in matters of immigration especially!

Another issue I've seen with regard to France is the need to have a lease secured or a deed to property in France. I am a renter, and would need to sort out the logistics of obtaining a rental while on a tourist visa, then return to my home country (US), apply for the long-stay visa and if approved, return to France. That would be difficult given the possible variables: the visa may not be approved and signing a lease is a commitment; and signing a lease on a tourist visa and then waiting possibly a month or two for approval means paying for a rental while waiting in your home country. Anyone have suggestions how to manage the rental/lease issue while applying for the visa from the home country?

[Bevdeforges]

The need for a signed lease agreement has been coming up quite a bit recently. I suspect it's a fairly new requirement. Most consulates seem to be accepting an "agreement to lease" - more or less a promise by a landlord or rental agency that they will lease something to you if everything goes according to plan.

I suspect this is a sneaky way of getting the landlord or rental agency to do a credit and/or background check on you so the consulate doesn't have to do that sort of thing themselves. But with any kind of luck someone will be through here with some recent experience in meeting this requirement.
Cheers,
Bev

[ijsacks]

Originally Posted by Traveler123

Thanks, Bev. This is helpful. I'll check the US consulate for France near where I live in the US. Yes, immigration and visa issues are often "gray" and not black and white as you suggest; however, many countries do list a minimum amount of $$ for a nonworking or retirement visa, if they offer one. I appreciate your information and do understand the need for tolerating ambiguity.....in matters of immigration especially!

Another issue I've seen with regard to France is the need to have a lease secured or a deed to property in France. I am a renter, and would need to sort out the logistics of obtaining a rental while on a tourist visa, then return to my home country (US), apply for the long-stay visa and if approved, return to France. That would be difficult given the possible variables: the visa may not be approved and signing a lease is a commitment; and signing a lease on a tourist visa and then waiting possibly a month or two for approval means paying for a rental while waiting in your home country. Anyone have suggestions how to manage the rental/lease issue while applying for the visa from the home country?

I was wondering about the requirement for a police record to submit when applying for a visa. Can you provide any information about that? I'd be grateful.
Irwin Sacks

[dougondemand]

Originally Posted by ijsacks

I was wondering about the requirement for a police record to submit when applying for a visa. Can you provide any information about that? I'd be grateful.
Irwin Sacks

Hello!

AFAIK, you need a background check with the body that holds criminal records data in your country. The record should be clean--if it isn't it may prevent you from getting a visa.

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by ijsacks

I was wondering about the requirement for a police record to submit when applying for a visa. Can you provide any information about that? I'd be grateful.
Irwin Sacks

I've been out of town (without my computer!!) for a couple days. Sorry to be so slow in getting back to you.

Check with the consulate for what they want. In most European countries there is some sort of national level police agency that handles this request for a police record. If you're coming from the US, the closest equivalent is the FBI.

In the past, some folks have gotten away with getting a statement (or some sort of formal paper) from their local police force stating that they have no record of any mis-deeds over the 10 years (or however long) you have lived in the area. If, however, they insist on the national record (as they do when you're applying for nationality), you have to get fingerprinted using a special FBI card, then send that with $18 to the FBI for them to check your "rap sheet" on a national level.

Last I knew, the FBI won't mail out the cards. You need to find an FBI office nearby and go in and ask for one. You can then usually take it to your local police station where they will fingerprint you (normally for free, but with the current round of budget crises going on they may start charging for this service).

The instructions for mailing in the card are all there on the card, and what you get back for you $18 is the card stamped "no record found." But it's enough to convince the French authorities that you're not a druggie or a terrorist.
Cheers,
Bev

[ijsacks]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

I've been out of town (without my computer!!) for a couple days. Sorry to be so slow in getting back to you.

Check with the consulate for what they want. In most European countries there is some sort of national level police agency that handles this request for a police record. If you're coming from the US, the closest equivalent is the FBI.

In the past, some folks have gotten away with getting a statement (or some sort of formal paper) from their local police force stating that they have no record of any mis-deeds over the 10 years (or however long) you have lived in the area. If, however, they insist on the national record (as they do when you're applying for nationality), you have to get fingerprinted using a special FBI card, then send that with $18 to the FBI for them to check your "rap sheet" on a national level.

Last I knew, the FBI won't mail out the cards. You need to find an FBI office nearby and go in and ask for one. You can then usually take it to your local police station where they will fingerprint you (normally for free, but with the current round of budget crises going on they may start charging for this service).

The instructions for mailing in the card are all there on the card, and what you get back for you $18 is the card stamped "no record found." But it's enough to convince the French authorities that you're not a druggie or a terrorist.
Cheers,
Bev

Good Grief! Its like jumping through hoops of fire to get into this country! Thanks for the info. I'll let you know if my local police will be helpful.
Irwin