Compétences et Talents (Skills and Talents) visa vs. Student Visa

[scabadaska]

Hello everyone! I am new to the forum and I will try to keep this post short. I have some very specific questions.

I am a 26 year old working professional with a BA of Entertainment Management and an Associates of Interactive Media Design. My focus for the past years has been designing, developing and implementing rich media applications and websites for US clients. I currently am contracted through an American company but have a stable of my own, personal clients. The goal has been starting my own interactive firm with a network of freelance employees. So, I would not have a business with hired employees per se, but more of a network of people globally willing to work on projects as a collaboration of talents.

I have always wanted to make France my home and believe in the French way of life. I know that it can be difficult migrating to France and I would like to explore my options of integrating within French society. I have built a great network of French designers and web developers, along with some of the closets friends I know; all living in Paris.

I know small amounts of French and have been pursuing French classes. I would like to take my French studies very seriously and take language and culture classes when I first arrive in France. I have also considered pursuing my French Masters at La Sorbonne Paris.

All that said - what would you think my best approach to migrating to France would be? I can take the course of a student visa, but I would really like to pursue my career goals as first priority ( after successfully becoming comprehensive with the French language ). Do you believe that I could be a successful candidate and recipient of the new Skills and Talents permit with my intent to bring together French and US talents to further the economic growth and international awareness of both countries? Is there a financial minimum that I must have to acquire the Skills and Talents permit?

My fear is applying for the Skills and Talents visa and not receiving it then also not being able to get my student visa in a timely manner. I plan on making the move in June of this year. I have already informed my job and have started the process of signing up for CampusFrance (a requirement for all US nationals wanting to study in France) and I have made contact with La Sorbonne about attending their university for the French language and culture curriculum, but have yet to hear back. I am 110% determined to make this happen however possible. I just don't know what route to take. Regardless of visa status, I will attend, and get certified, for the French language classes.

If I end up going on a student visa, I would like to continue to freelance with my American clients and, if possible, work with some of my French designer friends on projects as well. Is this possible on a student visa?

I am a US born citizen currently living and working in Los Angeles, California. I would like to make my move as soon as June of this year. I would greatly appreciate any help and/or advice that you all can provide.

Thank you all so much!

[Bevdeforges]

OK, this is new one on me, but as I read the information on both the Service Public site and the French Consulate in the US site, this is actually a carte de séjour and not really a visa category. (The French system doesn't have categories of visas like the US does. You enter on your visa and then the local préfecture determines what sort of carte de séjour they will issue you with based on the dossier you present.)

What I'd do in your case would be to apply as a student to go over and learn French. You'll need to have your own private insurance to do that, and technically you aren't supposed to be working (though working freelance stuff remotely is kind of hard to track unless you're using that to prove that you have the means to support yourself while you're in school).

From what I can tell, it's entirely possible to apply for the compétences et talents card after you have arrived in France. In any event, you need to have a project underway - they ask for such things as a bail (lease) for premises and a sort of business plan for your "activity" all of which is going to have to be in pretty darned good French. (Nice "extra credit" work to prepare on the side for your French classes.) Living in France as a student will also allow you to study up on the sorts of hoops you will have to jump through to establish your business in France. All of that will take every bit of your French language skills as there is virtually nothing available in translation.

Anyhow, I think you're far more likely to qualify for the student visa now, and that gives you time to prepare your dossier in France (with lots of local help) for the compétences et talents card when your first carte de séjour comes up for renewal.
Cheers,
Bev

[scabadaska]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

OK, this is new one on me, but as I read the information on both the Service Public site and the French Consulate in the US site, this is actually a carte de séjour and not really a visa category. (The French system doesn't have categories of visas like the US does. You enter on your visa and then the local préfecture determines what sort of carte de séjour they will issue you with based on the dossier you present.)

What I'd do in your case would be to apply as a student to go over and learn French. You'll need to have your own private insurance to do that, and technically you aren't supposed to be working (though working freelance stuff remotely is kind of hard to track unless you're using that to prove that you have the means to support yourself while you're in school).

From what I can tell, it's entirely possible to apply for the compétences et talents card after you have arrived in France. In any event, you need to have a project underway - they ask for such things as a bail (lease) for premises and a sort of business plan for your "activity" all of which is going to have to be in pretty darned good French. (Nice "extra credit" work to prepare on the side for your French classes.) Living in France as a student will also allow you to study up on the sorts of hoops you will have to jump through to establish your business in France. All of that will take every bit of your French language skills as there is virtually nothing available in translation.

Anyhow, I think you're far more likely to qualify for the student visa now, and that gives you time to prepare your dossier in France (with lots of local help) for the compétences et talents card when your first carte de séjour comes up for renewal.
Cheers,
Bev

Bev,

Thank you SO MUCH. The consulate website and, unfortunately, the help at the consulate were not much "help". This makes much more sense the way you put it. I really appreciate the rapid response. I will certainly heed your advice and pursue my student visa (safer bet). In the US now we MUST use CampusFrance to attend university in France. I will be applying for language and culture classes at La Sorbonne and then continue on for my Masters there after. I will be sure to keep the community up to date on my findings, hardships and the entire process.

Luckily, I will not need to use my freelance as proof of sustainability since I have roughly 20,000 saved specifically for this use. Now, whether or not they decide that is enough; well, that is a different story all together. I will have a family member give a letter of "promise to pay" my allowance as well, although my family is quite poor and wont actually be furnishing me money. Is this fine? I will have enough to last me at least a full year, if not more, without working. Again, I will be freelancing, just kind of "on the sly", so I am hoping to not touch too much of my savings. Also, I will "mooching" of some very loving, close parisian friends for some time until I settle in. Which brings up the topic of foreigner, no job ( legally, anyway ), and in school... how does one get a flat approved in Paris? I heard this can be an absolute nightmare. My French friends are happy to house me, but I refuse to be a burden to anyone and need my own personal space to work so I would like to settle on my own place sooner than later.

Regarding the insurance... I have read conflicting arguments - CampusFrance says if under 28 I can join the social security so long as the university is a recognized institute (Sorbonne most certainly is), yet on the the consulate website it states that I must have this proof. If I am leaving my current job to go to France, what are my options for insurance on a budget?

From here, my next step is to complete the registration process for CampusFrance and then get in with La Sorbonne for French language courses ( I need to get at least b2 DELF certified to pursue my masters ). Wish me luck everyone! If anyone has good advice on CampusFrance or any other study-related items, please feel free to contribute.

Thanks again Bev, it is very appreciated!

[Bevdeforges]

I'm not sure if they regard the Sorbonne language classes for foreigners as the sort of school that will get you into the sécu system here. But if it is, then your acceptance to the school should be "proof" of your insurance. If not, check AARO - Association of Americans Resident Overseas for the medical insurance available for their members. (You'd have to be a member, but that's not a bad idea anyhow and it's not that expensive.)

As far as renting a place, I would expect that CampusFrance should be able to at least point you to someplace. "Student housing" in France is pretty tiny, cheap and grim, but plenty of students rent themselves flats every year.

Depending on how much you're pulling in with your freelancing work, you may actually be able to declare it and be all nice and legal under some new "simplification" rules related to "self employment." That's something to check out after you get over here. In the meantime, be very sure to keep filing your US tax returns. If something goes wrong, it's an indication that you're conducting your business in good faith and you should be able to work something out on the French side.
Cheers,
Bev

[scabadaska]

Hi Bev,

Thank you again for the valuable information. I am getting the sneaking suspicion you may become my "go to" for this whole adventure (so long as you don't mind, of course).

I am sure as I continue on this journey I will have many questions. You have been MUCH help thus far. I find it amazing that contacting the consulate in LA, La Sorbonne in Paris, and CampusFrance in Washington that NO ONE will give me straight answers about anything.

Again, I appreciate everything and hope that I can come to you over the course of the next couple months.

Cheers!

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by scabadaska

Hi Bev,

Thank you again for the valuable information. I am getting the sneaking suspicion you may become my "go to" for this whole adventure (so long as you don't mind, of course).

I am sure as I continue on this journey I will have many questions. You have been MUCH help thus far. I find it amazing that contacting the consulate in LA, La Sorbonne in Paris, and CampusFrance in Washington that NO ONE will give me straight answers about anything.

Again, I appreciate everything and hope that I can come to you over the course of the next couple months.

Cheers!

No problem - just post your questions here, and don't worry if I sometimes take a day or two to reply.

You have to get used to the French attitude toward information. No one wants to be pinned down, and in practice most "fonctionnaires" have a certain latitude of action anyhow. So what someone in the consulate tells you can be completely wrong, just because the prefecture you wind up dealing with doesn't want to do things that way. There's also the problem that no French official will ever want to say "I don't know" and may well make something up in answer to your question.

If you really want to live here, you have to learn how to work around it.
Cheers,
Bev

[scabadaska]

Hey Bev (and everyone else who needs the same help)!

I hate to dig up an old thread, but I have gone the route that was suggested as it was the most conclusive. In fact, I even made a post a little while back about my woes with the "new" student carte process.

It's been a REAL pain in the rear ever since but I finally have worked everything out and have my 6 month carte de sejour on the way. Apparently, now at the Paris prefecture, they no longer issue students year-long cartes. This, of course, could merely be my individual case as all things French are never the same.

So, I am here to propose a very thorough idea of what I want, just not sure how to achieve it. Let's begin!

I completed my summer session at the Sorbonne. Everything was good, classes were great and helpful and my French has improved a lot. I will be beginning my winter semester starting October 9th - January 10th. I do not intend to continue classes there after as they are just way too expensive. In fact, I never planned on doing more than the winter semester but now that I have only been issued a 6 month carte, it seems I am back to "Either continue school, or get out of the EU". I was HOPING (haha) to come, have my first year CdS and during that time form my freelancing business under the auto-entreleneur status so when my renewal time came around, I could switch my status proving that I was successfully making money and pay my social contributions.

I pick my carte up from the prefecture on September 28th, at which point I can apply online for my auto-entrepeneur status. I have just been flying under the radar with my freelance work lately (quite easy, really) but would like to get set up with AE soon so I have more documents to back my case when applying to switch my status. I know that switching from a student card really isn't supposed to happen, although I was able to find some brief info on the Paris prefecture website that kind of alludes to it being possible - I would just have to REALLY prepare my dossier.

So, my questions are as follows ( I would like to break them into two categories )

1) Switching Status
- Have you heard/know of any success stories on switching from student status?
- If so, what road was taken?
- What status should I apply into? I would really like to receive the carte competences et talents, but there still seems to be much confusion on whether or not this can be obtained WHILE in France. I have read that you can, and even that students can apply to change their status, but no details were even given past the mention of "it can be done". It seems to be another case of "if they prefecture hasn't heard of it, then no, it isn't possible". By the very MEANS of the CeT carte, you SHOULD in theory be able to apply for it while in France. Again, it's depending on the prefecture. I would hope that Paris would be (slightly) up to snuff on this status as it's not incredibly new at this point.

2) Taxes (eek)
- I make most (at this point all) my money from American clients.
- I really don't make much Freelancing, but it's a life-style choice over my high-money, high-stress, long-hours office job.
- I moved to France mid-year ( arrived in June ) and was still on payroll for my American firm up until April 09

Those are the most important tax details and my 1 major question is - How do I avoid double taxation? Or actually, how do I avoid paying taxes to the US is more concise. I have heard of the overseas tax exemption, but I am quite possibly to worst "money handling" person in the world. I know so little about the field. Would you be able to explain? Is there a set number that if you make less than $XXXXX/year, you don't have to pay to the US tax?

Sorry for the extremely long post. I really know what path I want, I just need to understand the best approach. I would like to make this switch at the end of my expiration of this current carte and I will have already been enrolled as an auto-entrepeneur with backing documents at this time. In fact, the day I have my carte in-hand (Sep 28), I am applying immediately.

So, lay it on me! What is this going to take? (and thank you as usual, you are a huge asset to the community and we all appreciate it)

[Bevdeforges]

Hm, is it possible that your student cds was issued for only 6 months because of the duration of your language classes? Best go pick it up, because they do backdate those things so that the expiration date agrees with when they think you should be packing up and leaving. (My first carte de séjour was backdated a full year thanks to all the fun and games I went through trying to get it.)

OK, for your questions:
1. Switching status - the cases I know of someone successfully switching status from a student visa usually involve someone who gets employed by a French employer based on the degree they finished.

To apply at all for the CetT card, first thing you have to do is to come up with a project that demonstrates how you are going to use your competences and talents to do something for La Belle France. Servicing your freelance clients in the US probably isn't going to cut it. And, from what I've read, the implication is that, if your project is sufficiently noteworthy and of sufficient interest to the French nation, yes you can apply while in France on some other status.

2. Taxation. If you are an American citizen, you must file US taxes the rest of your life, no matter where you live. You avoid double taxation using the overseas earned income exclusion (for which you first have to qualify - by being at least 12 consecutive months outside the country or being a bona fide resident in a foreign country for a full calendar year). You can exclude up to around $85,000 of earned income - but you have to file the tax form (2555) to claim the exclusion. It isn't a matter of "you don't have to do anything if you earn less than $xxx."

The overseas earned income exclusion applies only to earned income (duh) - i.e. salary and wages. Your freelancing income counts as salary and wages, but unless you're registered as a business here in France and paying cotisations like you're supposed to, you will probably have to pay US social security on your earnings as a self-employed person. (The rate is about 15% these days.)

Meanwhile, as a resident in France, you also declare your worldwide income to the French tax authorities (from the date you established residence in France). The forms can be a bear the first couple times through, but they get easier with practice.
Cheers,
Bev

[sixminutes]

As a foreign student, you have the right to work legally 964 hours per year in France. Yes the Sorbonne is expensive but if your wanting to learn French check to see if there are some year long DELF courses in Paris... there might be. I know UniRouen has them but this may not be an option for you....