Baby born in France

[Kazing1]

My daughter has a baby with a french boyfriend. They currently live together. She is English the boyfriend is French the baby was born in France and has a French ID card. My daughter is intending on applying for a British passport for him. All is good at the moment. Just for info purposes if my daughter decides to go back to the UK and take the baby with her either to visit or stay does she have to have the permission of the father? Can he prevent her from taking the baby to the UK or does this depend on whether he has a British passport or not or does it not matter as we are all in Europe?

[Bevdeforges]

The baby's father generally can prevent a child from leaving France without his permission. That's not really a European thing, but rather an international treaty designed to thwart child abduction. In fact, I believe it is necessary for both parents to sign in person when applying for a passport for a minor these days.

Not sure about the pre-school years, but once a child is enrolled in school here in France, they may well need permission from the local mairie to leave the country (especially during the school year). Used to be the case, anyhow. Not sure if it has changed or not.
Cheers,
Bev

[ello]

Bev, it’s still the case. What happen to me was in May last year i want to take my daughter with me to visit my dad back in the usa, then also visit my mom in the Caribbean. I knew that i couldn't take her out of school for more than two weeks so i went to inform the school that i want to take her for a few days with me. Later that day, i was contacted by the director and also the mairie who told me i do not have the right to take her out of school to go to another country, neither should any children be absent more than three days in a school year, unless they are ill or else they needs a doctor certificate, so if i do so, i do off my own risk. That is why; now i always planned my travel depend on her school holidays.

[titania]

Originally Posted by Kazing1

My daughter has a baby with a french boyfriend.

Not married?

Then it depends on which parent "legitimized" the child first, as this has a bearing on who has "parental" authority.

• One way to find out is knowing which surname the baby is bearing - mother's or father's.
  
• The other way is asking your daughter - she's bound to know.
  
• Whoever has parental authority can allow (or not) the baby to be taken abroad.

They currently live together. She is English the boyfriend is French the baby was born in France and has a French ID card. My daughter is intending on applying for a British passport for him. All is good at the moment. Just for info purposes if my daughter decides to go back to the UK and take the baby with her either to visit or stay does she have to have the permission of the father? Can he prevent her from taking the baby to the UK or does this depend on whether he has a British passport or not or does it not matter as we are all in Europe?

I'm uncertain whether the fact that the baby has an English or French passport is relevant. I really think it's whoever has parental authority regardless of nationality who can allow the baby abroad - you'd want more information from official sources.

[Garonne]

Originally Posted by titania

Not married?

Then it depends on which parent "legitimized" the child first, as this has a bearing on who has "parental" authority.

• One way to find out is knowing which surname the baby is bearing - mother's or father's.
  
• The other way is asking your daughter - she's bound to know.
  
• Whoever has parental authority can allow (or not) the baby to be taken abroad.

I'm uncertain whether the fact that the baby has an English or French passport is relevant. I really think it's whoever has parental authority regardless of nationality who can allow the baby abroad - you'd want more information from official sources.

Oh my, this is SUCH a complicated topic!

I stand to be corrected but I don't think any of the information that's been posted is correct, or indeed it's far more complex than has been explained. The law changed in 2010 and was amended in 2012 and many aspects of the parents' individual circumstances play a part in whether permission is required or not.

The simple answer is no, to travel to the UK for a holiday your daughter does not require permission from the father. However, if she wishes to move there and not return, she does. Your daughter will need the passport application signed by the child's father unless they are separated.

So far as Titania's post is concerned it isn't a question of surname or anything else which establishes the parent with legal responsibility. In Europe where parents are separated an unmarried mother has automatic parental responsibility unless the father applies to the courts to have shared responsibility. If the parents live together unmarried or are still married they automatically have joint responsibility.

"Dans tous les pays de l'UE, la mère exerce automatiquement la responsabilité parentale sur son enfant, au même titre que le père, s'il est marié. Tant qu'ils vivent ensemble, les parents exercent conjointement cette responsabilité."
UE – Responsabilité parentale, droit de garde et de visite après une séparation – L'Europe est à vous

So far as travel is concerned it depends on the 'nature' of the voyage. If it's for a holiday, permission isn't required from the parent not travelling but if it's leaving France, it is. The parent not travelling is entitled by law to know the address of the child whilst outside of France, whether the parents are still living together or not.

However, on the subject of a minor born in France with the mother wishing to travel outside of France she doesn't require written permission from the father. If a minor born to a child born in France with one or both parents being French is travelling without either parent that's when written permission is required from the parent with parental responsibility (so in the case of an unmarried separated couple, the mother).

It's explained in detail here:

Divorce et vacances à l'étranger avec son enfant

Basically, for one of the parents to be refused permission to leave France with the child, the Juge d'Enfants has to give authority.

As always, I'll stand to be corrected!!

[Kazing1]

Many thanks-the site listed was a great source of information.

[titania]

Hi. I stand corrected but not in all aspects of the question .

Information that is most useful is here:

As of 1 January 2013, a child does not anymore need an "Autorisation de sortie du territoire".

Here: Peut-on encore exiger une autorisation de sortie de territoire ? - Service-public.fr

and

http://circulaires.legifrance.gouv.f.../cir_36117.pdf

If one parent refuses for the child to get out of French territory, he/she can do it fairly easily:

Opposition et interdiction de sortie de territoire d'un enfant mineur - Service-public.fr

Exercice de l'autorité parentale:

Exercice de l'autorité parentale - Service-public.fr

Filiation de l'enfant : parents non mariés - Service-public.fr

and which also means that if the father has recognised the child before birth and before the mother, he also has parental authority.

Comment prouver l'autorité parentale pour une demande de titre d'identité d'un mineur ? - Service-public.fr

How to request a Carte d'identité for a child

Carte nationale d'identité d'un mineur : première demande - Service-public.fr

How to request a Passport for a child

In other words, if the two parents have legal authority, it will be the first one that asks for the carte d'identité and obtains it that will be effectively free to use it with the child. If the parent hides it, you can't take the baby out of France.

The law for what name the child has is here:

Choix du nom de famille - Service-public.fr

More details here:

Reconnaître et déclarer votre enfant si vous n'êtes pas mariés.

And yes, the name of the child will show, in certain circumstances, who has legal authority over it.

The name of the mother on the child's birth certificate is not automatic is she has given birth anonymously ("Accouchement sous X"), and the father can request legal authority of a child born to a mother who gave birth anonymously to the Procureur de la République who will identify the child and give it the father's name (and parental authority). That means that a child can have only the father's name and not the mother's...

Law:

Filiation de l'enfant : parents non mariés - Service-public.fr

Case law:

RETRO Le père d'un né sous X voit sa paternité reconnue - Lastdays

And finally, the government's blablabla, you'll need to read it in full

http://www.textes.justice.gouv.fr/ar...SC1119808C.pdf