Really struggling

[UnLandais]

Hello everyone,

I've been sneaking around on the forum for a while and thought it was time to post. Sorry if my first post seems like a whinge, I might cheer up later!

I've recently moved to southwest France with my French girlfriend. We lived for a while in Britain but she struggled and couldn't settle in and anyway we were both out of work. So, we took the decision to make a go of it here and we are living temporarily with her parents. I never thought in a million years that I would end up trying to live in another country, or be in this kind of situation, but here I am.

I'm struggling a bit with a few things, especially on how to make a living. My French is reasonably good and I understand most people. Speaking wise, I make grammatical errors and have to ask for the names of certain things, but otherwise I'm getting comfortable. However, I'm realising that speaking good French alone will not get me a job.

I have no social security here and neither does my gf at the moment. We're living off our savings and the kindness of her family. I'm registered with the anpe but just like back home they don't seem to be bothered about helping me to find work. About 95% of the jobs here require experience that I don't have and my qualifications are of the theoretical and useless variety and in all likelihood wouldn't be recognized here anyway. The jobs where I'm not filtered out are usually in meat processing plants and I think I'd spew up with the stench.

I have experience in retail and I sent out lots of speculative applications to supermarkets and shops. I received one reply only to say thanks, but no thanks. Working in a supermarket is the only real job experience I have.

On top of that, I'm a bit out in the sticks and any job would require a car since my gf would also require hers. I have seen the prices of second hand clapped-out motors in the local paper and it's frightening compared to back home. I don't have two thousand euros to spend on an old banger that has been driven most of the way to the moon. Any job would have to justify spending that amount of money on a hunk of junk. In any case, I need to find a job to apply for before I start daydreaming about buying a car. I am doing a bit of casual private English tutoring, but it's nothing more than pocket money and I can't ever see how to make enough money from that.

I'm totally stuck and I just can't see it changing. That's two months gone already. Even my gf who has lots of admin experience as a fonctionnaire and also two degrees can't find work. The idea of us both being in employment and having the means to at least rent a flat seem so far away and unattainable that just now, I don't believe it'll happen.

The only thing the anpe has done is to force me to attend a job fair or be considered to not be seeking employment, which I thought was a bit harsh considering the government doesn't give me a bean. It was to get hired for a new restaurant...which hasn't even been built! There were at least a hundred and fifty people battling for less than twenty jobs, only two of which I could have applied for doing the dishes. I just didn't see the point because it won't even be open for another six months and I'm wondering if I'll even be here.

Despite their kindness it just seems inappropriate to me that we live in my gf's parent's house for such a length of time, especially since we don't contribute to the financial running of the house. I didn't move here for the weather, or the cheese, or the wine. I'm here with my gf because it's her home and if we can't make it work here then it's over.

I keep thinking that I should be doing something, but I just don't have a clue. Any ideas?

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by UnLandais

I'm registered with the anpe but just like back home they don't seem to be bothered about helping me to find work. About 95% of the jobs here require experience that I don't have and my qualifications are of the theoretical and useless variety and in all likelihood wouldn't be recognized here anyway. ...

I have experience in retail and I sent out lots of speculative applications to supermarkets and shops. I received one reply only to say thanks, but no thanks. Working in a supermarket is the only real job experience I have....

I keep thinking that I should be doing something, but I just don't have a clue. Any ideas?

You're having what we call a "bad France day." Been here 13 years how and still have them now and then.

What sort of "theoretical and useless" qualifications do you have? Sometimes there is a way to turn even those into something.

The fact of the matter is that most jobs in France are found through personal referrals. (I.e. you know someone who knows someone who has an available job.) Not knowing anyone in France leaves you on the short end of things. (ANPE has never been known for finding people jobs - though you do have to go through the motions.)

Add to it all, you've arrived in a sort of difficult period job-wise. With this worldwide economic meltdown thing going on, no one is keen to hire. There have already been a number of lay-offs announced at some of the big employers - Renault and the like - so folks are running scared.

Do you have any sort of "grand surface" stores nearby? They pay crappy and they expect people to work all sorts of hours, but they do seem to hire foreigners on a steady basis. It's at least a foot in the door (and a carte vitale in the bargain). The other option is temp agencies, if you've got any sort of office skills (especially bookkeeping "in the anglo-saxon" system).

Hang in there. Job hunting takes a LONG time here under the best of circumstances. Being out in the sticks can really limit your possibilities, too. But heck, at least her parents are apparently willing to put you both up. (Not everyone has that advantage. )
Cheers,
Bev

[UnLandais]

Hi Bev

I have a degree in music recording and production which included a lot of electronics theory. To be honest, it's not worth the paper it's printed on and in retrospect I shouldn't have wasted my time, money and effort on it. It has never been a factor in helping me to find work and every job I've ever had has been completely unrelated to this. Unfortunately, those jobs were long ago in the past and only temporary. For the last few years I've been deep in the mire of unemployment.

I've had interviews with countless "job coach' type individuals, career planners and other such employment advisors back home, but nobody can trace a line into work for me with this qualification since experience seems to be the be all and end all. I'm never considered for minimum wage type work because of my education. Most employers just assume I'll jump ship when a higher status, higher paying job comes along. Obtaining a degree has actually made me more unemployable than before. I'm quite prepared to work, but I need to be an eligible candidate at least before I apply and before I'd be considered by a prospective employer. The more I think about it and the more that time passes, the more I realise that I'm quite unemployable due to my lack of experience but high level of education.

It gets worse in France when restaurants are asking for two years experience to be a waiter (on the anpe website this morning). Don't get me wrong, there's a knack to everything, but saying that someone needs two years to learn the job is just plain nonsense. Imagine how many unemployed people must be excluded from even making an application because of that. So, if I wasn't unemployable enough already, in this country I need spades of experience even to do a relatively simple job, that's if they'd even look at me because of my education.

I suppose in theory, having French contacts here already should be paying dividends. Alas, nothing is on the horizon except a couple of hours teaching English here and there.

All the lay-offs make a bit of a mockery of the "travailler plus pour gagner plus" ethic. You'd think people might need a job first before they are advised to do even more work

I don't have any office skills, but I suppose I could churn out more speculative enquiries. Considering only a tiny fraction of employers even bother to acknowledge the letter, I don't hold out much hope, but what else can I do?

I think I'm slowly beginning to realise that I could be here looking for work for a VERY long time if I do indeed decide to stick it out. I do feel grateful that someone is putting us up, but it's not nice to feel like such a freeloader. I help out around the place when I can but it can't be considered as payment.

I don't want it to affect our relationship, but I wonder how long we can continue going absolutely nowhere like this.

Thanks for putting up with my rant.

[Bevdeforges]

Don't know exactly what you've tried so far, but one thing that seems to be distinctly different here is that it pays to literally go out and pound the pavement - i.e. turn up in person rather than sending out letters. But the French do seem to be more stuck on your qualification than most - if you studied music then it's slightly "odd" for you to be even considering a job elsewhere. But on the other hand, most university graduates won't consider "flipping burgers" at McDo's, even if they were literally starving. They're afraid they'll get "type cast" and won't ever be able to get a job doing what they were trained to be doing.

Hey, at least you're not a philosophy major. Don't imagine there is much of a job market out there for philosophers at the moment - but it's a really popular major here.

Sometimes it's just a matter of turning up at the right time in the right place (like just after someone has quit).
Cheers,
Bev

[FLID]

hi unlandais,
first of all you r soooo not whinging! sometimes its good to be able to just talk about stuff ya know. i know u said u had been unemployed in england, but for how long? cos if you have a p45 from england to say u have worked, they will sometimes pay you "assedics" however this normally has to be pretty recent, i think, and your girlfriend been french will probably already know all the ins and outs of that. bev is completely right about the job bit, in my experience, over here its not really a case of what u know, but WHO u know, my bloke found work through our neighbour, cos like u said, the anpe, not completely up to much r they?, apart from sending u off to job fairs and stuff, like u said, i once spent three hours in a room with ten other people been told how to dress and put make up on for a job interview, they probably think this helps, but if you dont know how to put make up on at my age, there is something wrong, needless to say we were all pretty pi***d off, and about the car situation, ours broke down on new years eve, yes nice day to break down eh!, we had to get a smaller one, it was cheap, but safe, but there have been times when we havent been able to put petrol in, so i know what you r saying, its hard to run a car when you dont have a job to be able to run it. bev is again, as always,right ,about "pounding the pavements" thats what we did, maybe u already have, i am, like you, a supermarket worker, and i have been to every place around here, not just once, but several times, in person, armed with cv's, i have a french friend who told me that you have to push them, but its quite awful to try and do that when your not a pushy person by nature, (which im not), but, i find there is a line between been slightly forceful and downright arrogant, mcdonalds r always looking for people, unfortunately for me, it was nights, and as i dont drive, i was not willing to wake the kids up at all hours of the night, for my partner to come and pick me up, especially on school nights! plus i dint have anyone else to take me or bring me home. (which is probably the same for u with no car). i know u have said u dont see anything changing, but you have been here a couple of months, we have been here two years, and it has been tough, BUT, i would rather struggle over here than struggle back in england, and if someone asked me if i would do it all again, then the answer would be "yes i bloody well would" some people like to say "whatever doesnt kill u makes you stronger", i like to say "whatever doesnt drive u bloody mad makes you stronger" there is light at the end of the tunnel (thats what i like to think) and you said you didnt want to let it affect your relationship, dont let it, do what me and my bloke do, stick together and say well things r s**t at the moment, but at least weve still got the kids and each other. dont give up, hang on in there, it will be worth it in the long run, things will get better, we have been in your situation(still r most of the time) but you've got to make light of it, and not let it get you down, instead of thinking its all over, think positive....its only just begun, please dont give up yet. have you tried putting some little cards on the supermarket ad boards, or in the local bars? we did, r u any good at odd jobs, or building, or making things? anything that you can think of, try it. it is hard work, sometimes you just want to scream and bang your head against the wall (i wait till the kids have gone to school) but there is good times to be had, take care, let me know how things r going, and if you need to talk about anything im here, flid xx

[UnLandais]

Thanks. I suppose in the grand scheme of things two months is not a long time. If my gf and I are really serious about each other then we will just have to struggle along for a while. I need to make a list of places where I could work and literally stick my head in the door with a cv between my teeth! Yesterday was certainly a bummer and I was feeling down. I just need to be more determined.

[FLID]

hi there again,
i was thinking about you the other night actually (does that sound kinky) just kidding! but anyway you've probably already done this, but, have you registered with all the agencies yet? i'll tell you we went with "manpower", and they were really good with us, alot of the other agencies just didnt seem to want to be bothered with us, but manpower r good, they made us very welcome, and they always seem to find something for you, i know you said you didnt think you could face working in a meat factory, cos of the smell and stuff, and i can say i know a couple of people who have worked there, who definetely didnt like it, but, it pays, and when your mixing with the other people there, you get to hear about other job openings etc..., my bloke had to take a job puttin chickens in cages, now that was awful, the smell was worse than meat, it made me gip, and that was when he got home! i felt awful for him, fortunately, he has got something a bit better now. i would definetely try manpower though, dont let anybody fob you off though, we spent a long time getting fobbed off, until i went to manpower with a phone number for a job and insisted that they phone them there and then for us, i asked nicely though, and they did. like i said, you definetely dont have to be pushy and arrogant, sometimes theres ways to go about it, you definetely dont sound pushy and arrogant though, so you should be ok, , let me know how you get on though yeh? hope everything gets better for you, flid xx

[Alex S.]

I moved to France 2 years ago with my French girlfriend and it's only in the last few months that I've started to feel that it might actually work.
Like you, I spent my first few months unemployed and then got work with an English camping company (PGL) that ran a site in this area. It paid peanuts but it kept me busy and gave me an opportunity to practice my French.
Then a friend put me in touch the local rectorat and I was oofered a part time job as an assistant English teach. A third of the hours and twice the pay! Yippee!
Then, through a colleague at the school I was put in touch with the company I now work for who needed a native English speaker to write documentation for their non-French clients.
Full time, CDI, thank you very much! But it took nearly 2 years.

Hang in there if you can. Look for English run holiday companies that operate in your area. Get in touch with the local rectorat and see if they need any assistant English teachers. Contact any companies who might have non-French customers.

Try to use your expert level of English as a qualification.

Good luck.

[leolehiwa]

Thinking about work......if nobody's hiring, what talents do you have? By any chance do you like digging in dirt? Would "landscaping" appeal to you? Being a massage therapist is a nice portable job & the money can be good. How creative can you be?

[Lizbeth]

Hi there,
Sounds like you're having a really tough time and need a cyber hug. I have to say, we've not yet moved but when I do this forum I know is going to help me through tough times; of which there'll be many.
I can't offer any practical help apart from if you do find time on your hands whilst job hunting - one thing I did post university was to learn to touch type - through endless broadsheet newspapers etc. It's an admin skill that you can take anywhere and is something that will keep you sane and make you feel better - I learnt too when I was first looking for work in London. Obviously it's an extra headache typing in a foreign language...
Anyway my suggestion may not help but all I can say is stick on in there and we're all behind you.
Lizbeth x