Really struggling

[UnLandais]

Thanks very much for everyone's support and ideas. It's much appreciated

I've finally found a job that I'm eligible to apply for (on the ANPE website of all places!)
Débutant accepté, full time, no qualifications required and of course it's the SMIC. It's a manual post involving the heavy lifting of fresh farm produce (no animal guts) and spending much time in a food chill. The hours are not given, so I'm assuming it'll be early morning or night-shift work. I'm not worried as long as I get my social security out of it.

My time in the supermarket may help me out. Also, I sent off the application only a few hours after it was posted on the net, so I'm hoping my quick response says something about my willingness. My hand is sore. I'm not used to writing out covering letters with a pen! Oh dear, how the keyboard reigns supreme these days.

I'll check out Manpower and a few other recruitment agencies. I should also try to make some friends and contacts because maybe that's the most important thing. I did a bit more English teaching today. It didn't quite make me rich but it's a token gesture at least to put that money towards the running of the house.

I never thought about these camping companies and adventure park thingies. Maybe that's a possibility to make a start. I'd love to teach English and make a living like you Alex because I love languages, but maybe that won't come for me just yet. I'll be keeping my eyes open though!

[marving]

Hey I have been in France for going on two months next week. Your situation is just like mine. I live with my wife (she is french). I am american and we stayed there in the US for 3 years but she wanted to be home, so we came to France and I am going crazy too. No job, friends and we are living with her parents. I only speak basic french not enough to work we are in massy near paris. I hope you find something so you can give me some type of hope.

[Bevdeforges]

Hi marving! You're not far from where I am (about 20 km the other side of Les Ulis). Do take advantage of the free French lessons that are part of your "contrat d'integration". They aren't the greatest classes, but you can't beat the price. Speaking passable French is the first requirement, it seems, for finding any sort of job. There are also some volunteer groups in the area that offer very reasonably priced French classes in small groups.

I was shopping yesterday over in Bretigny and noticed that lots of the shops are starting to post signs looking for temporary help through the holidays. They are only CDDs (limited term contracts) but it's how most locals get started. These jobs never hit the ANPE or other posting boards. They just stick a sign in the shop window and find whoever wanders by.

Or find one of the "welcome clubs" in the area (there is an Accueil Paliseau and the AVF at Bures-Gif-Orsay - I think there may be something at Massy, too). These groups often have French language circles where you can practice your language skills, and sometimes they can help you find a job as your language skills progress.

Two months isn't long, and in France job hunting inevitably takes much longer than that. (Not to mention a certain number of "Bad France Days" in the bargain.)
Cheers,
Bev

[UnLandais]

Hi marving, I suppose if we're serious about doing everything we can to settle in then these things will eventually come. Obviously, I'm not in much of a position to give you any great advice, but I can give you hope as far as the language is concerned. Two months in terms of learning a new language is nothing, so don't panic.

To let you know the amount of effort I've went through even just to get reasonably comfortable (not brilliantly fluent) here's what I have done.

I did a short college course many years ago, practised reading and writing French on the net with correspondents every day for a couple of years, practised speaking and listening with some French folks back home for a while and now I have been speaking French non stop with my gf for a whole year.

It's only at this stage that I am in a position where I can understand most people most of the time, and express myself to more or less say what I mean in intricate discussions. I'm always looking for a word, or a turn of phrase, but like me you have the perfect opportunity to learn at a fast rate because of your wife and her family.

Since being here I've made huge leaps of progress in a small perod of time. You just have to open your mouth and make some Frenchy noises even if the grammar or the accent isn't great at first. Also, don't be afraid to say out loud a word you're not sure of. Often a word in English has a similar sounding word in French. What you say might be wrong, but it will be understood, and if they care then they will correct you and you'll remember for the next time. At worst, you'll make a faux pas and get a few giigles, like me But you'll survive. That way you get used to saying something, anything, and you"ll have no fear, it becomes automatic.

Sometimes I wonder if people perceive me as the weirdo foreigner with his strange sentences, accent and mannerisms. But, I have to say, I don't really care because if the situation was reversed I'm sure they'd have a tough time too. Maybe even tougher.

Don't be deceived. Learning any language is hard and it's a marathon not a sprint. I study vocabulary, grammar, idioms, do exercises, etc, etc, every day, as well as speaking as much as I can. I recommend listening to France Info on the radio or even just watching TV. At first I didn't understand much, and it seemed to whizz by so fast. But now I understand the most of it, or at least the gist of it even if it's very complicated.

It won't come overnight marving, but I suppose nothing worthwhile comes easy!

[Bevdeforges]

Listening to France Info is an excellent tip. If you start first thing in the morning, and don't quite understand an "article" (they do short pieces to supplement the news), keep listening and they'll repeat the same piece at least a couple of times over the course of the morning. (They do seem to change articles for the afternoon.)

It's really helpful to be able to hear the same piece over a couple of times - often you pick up much more the second or third time you hear it.
Cheers,
Bev

[andy in germany]

If I were you, I would go self-employed. I've spent time working all across Europe and you do carry one very useful resource with you - English. It beats the hell out of working in a meat packing plant.

All you need to do is organise your students. Don't teach them separately. Group them into 5s at a good price for each of them. Charge them for each 50 minutes. And work out advertising. Make posters and stick them up. A short, slickly worded ad in a local newspaper and build up your customers, 1 by 1. Even if you only charge them 10euros for a 50 minute session, that's 50 euros for the group. If the group has two sessions, that's 100 euros a week for less than two hours work. If you have 5 groups like that, that's 500 euros for about 8 hours work.

Good luck!

[hanneke]

Hey you,
First bit of advice I'd give you is to have a good long chat with your girlfriend!
I work as an estate agent here and I'm only doing that to bring in the money. I haven't got the callous attitude a lot of my colleagues have which means that a lot of our clients have actually become friends.
However, I often discourage people to buy here if either partner is not entirely comfortable with the idea. I think it is admirable that you have chosen to accompany your girlfriend back to her roots, but this is an enormous step for you, which, even with the most solid of business plans, is not without challenges.
One of the things you could not have foreseen is the economic downturn which makes it difficult for everyone to find jobs.
You didn't say whereabouts you are in the southwest and I don't know your age, but I know that my company is looking for commercial agents (selling properties). Have a look on Agence immobilière spécialisée dans la transaction de maisons de caractère under the section recruitment to see if that might give you something to try?
In terms of teaching, something I do too; you may be able to get a little bit more money if you do private tuition, or contact the GRETA. I teach through them, both French to non-French speakers and English to French people. Hours are limited, but it pays me roughly 25 euros per hour.
Are you in an area with other ex-pats? Would you be able to start doing some DIY jobs, garden maintenance, house clearance etc?
In short, you sound very sad and in this world where everything is focused on having to earn enough to keep our heads above the water, it can take the shine off starting a new life with your girlfriend which in many ways was meant to be a happier time for you two I guess?!
I wish you good luck and above all, good spirit!
Hanneke

Originally Posted by UnLandais

Hello everyone,

I've been sneaking around on the forum for a while and thought it was time to post. Sorry if my first post seems like a whinge, I might cheer up later!

I've recently moved to southwest France with my French girlfriend. We lived for a while in Britain but she struggled and couldn't settle in and anyway we were both out of work. So, we took the decision to make a go of it here and we are living temporarily with her parents. I never thought in a million years that I would end up trying to live in another country, or be in this kind of situation, but here I am.

I'm struggling a bit with a few things, especially on how to make a living. My French is reasonably good and I understand most people. Speaking wise, I make grammatical errors and have to ask for the names of certain things, but otherwise I'm getting comfortable. However, I'm realising that speaking good French alone will not get me a job.

I have no social security here and neither does my gf at the moment. We're living off our savings and the kindness of her family. I'm registered with the anpe but just like back home they don't seem to be bothered about helping me to find work. About 95% of the jobs here require experience that I don't have and my qualifications are of the theoretical and useless variety and in all likelihood wouldn't be recognized here anyway. The jobs where I'm not filtered out are usually in meat processing plants and I think I'd spew up with the stench.

I have experience in retail and I sent out lots of speculative applications to supermarkets and shops. I received one reply only to say thanks, but no thanks. Working in a supermarket is the only real job experience I have.

On top of that, I'm a bit out in the sticks and any job would require a car since my gf would also require hers. I have seen the prices of second hand clapped-out motors in the local paper and it's frightening compared to back home. I don't have two thousand euros to spend on an old banger that has been driven most of the way to the moon. Any job would have to justify spending that amount of money on a hunk of junk. In any case, I need to find a job to apply for before I start daydreaming about buying a car. I am doing a bit of casual private English tutoring, but it's nothing more than pocket money and I can't ever see how to make enough money from that.

I'm totally stuck and I just can't see it changing. That's two months gone already. Even my gf who has lots of admin experience as a fonctionnaire and also two degrees can't find work. The idea of us both being in employment and having the means to at least rent a flat seem so far away and unattainable that just now, I don't believe it'll happen.

The only thing the anpe has done is to force me to attend a job fair or be considered to not be seeking employment, which I thought was a bit harsh considering the government doesn't give me a bean. It was to get hired for a new restaurant...which hasn't even been built! There were at least a hundred and fifty people battling for less than twenty jobs, only two of which I could have applied for doing the dishes. I just didn't see the point because it won't even be open for another six months and I'm wondering if I'll even be here.

Despite their kindness it just seems inappropriate to me that we live in my gf's parent's house for such a length of time, especially since we don't contribute to the financial running of the house. I didn't move here for the weather, or the cheese, or the wine. I'm here with my gf because it's her home and if we can't make it work here then it's over.

I keep thinking that I should be doing something, but I just don't have a clue. Any ideas?

[UnLandais]

Hi hanneke,

I have spoke to my gf about this several times. She seems to just assume that "it'll all work out." I'm of the opinion that for it to "all work out" we have to have some kind of plan and actually do something other than saying "it'll all work out." However, no matter how I press for ideas and action every discussion on the subject ends with "it'll all work out."

I don't have any major beef about being or living in France other than I have to pay my way in life like everybody else, but to do that I need the opportunity.

I've never thought about being an estate agent. I'll have a look on the site. There are some good suggestions from yourself and from Andy about how to eke more money out of teaching English. It's something that I'm doing very casually at the moment for friends of the family, but I don't know if I'm cut out for it. Perhaps, it's realistically the most obvious road to go down.

I'm very disorganized. I've learned French to a reasonable standard, but without any kind of logical or structured system of approach. I study but I don't think I do things in the right order. I get frustrated when everything gets put into a box and I prefer my own way, even if I don't really know what that is. I find it hard explaining even simple things to people. All this makes my English lessons toilsome. One girl I'm teaching can't seem to conjugate the verb "to have" in the present tense no matter how many times I show her then get her to write it out.

I have no idea if there are many ex-pats where I am. I'm in les Landes. Unfortunately, handyman jobs are at the bottom of my repertoire of useful skills. Child of the technological age (I'm 31), I can recognize a hammer from a nail but not much beyond that.

Not having the means to get yourself out of a situation certainly takes the shine off just about everything else you do. The funny thing is that things aren't any different back home. I suppose most people who go home and who have struggled in France are only too relieved to be back so they can get a steady job and have their independance again. In terms of making a living, I on the other hand have nothing to go back for, since my employment record there is no different than it is here. No reason to stay, no reason to return. I'm caught in a no-man's land where the only factors in deciding are the people I know, who happen to be people who can't help me make a living no matter how nice they are.

Thanks for all your suggestions. I'm going to let some of this information soak down into my frazzled brain. I suppose doing things is easy, but knowing what to do is hard.

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by UnLandais

I have spoke to my gf about this several times. She seems to just assume that "it'll all work out." I'm of the opinion that for it to "all work out" we have to have some kind of plan and actually do something other than saying "it'll all work out." However, no matter how I press for ideas and action every discussion on the subject ends with "it'll all work out."

Hm, this sounds incredibly familiar. Welcome to the French attitude toward planning! My French husband is much the same way and I hear from many others married to French people that this is something you just have to get used to. (It can be difficult to get the French involved in "working together" - they contend they are all fervent "individualists" but I insist it's because they are never taught how to work in teams. )

If you think you've exhausted most of your ideas for job hunting, make a point of trying to keep busy. Join an association in the area so that you get to know some people (independently of your gf). It's good for the ego, and it gets you networking which (although they don't call it that in France) is probably the best way to find a job here. The association you pick can be anything - a newcomers group (AVF, which I'm always plugging, is usually pretty good though it varies by local organization), a choir, a theater group (good for your French!), or a local sport group.

I spent seven years casting about for "something to do." Finding your own set of friends and activities is a big part of the settling in process.
Cheers,
Bev

[Lizbeth]

Originally Posted by UnLandais

Hi hanneke,

I have spoke to my gf about this several times. She seems to just assume that "it'll all work out." I'm of the opinion that for it to "all work out" we have to have some kind of plan and actually do something other than saying "it'll all work out." However, no matter how I press for ideas and action every discussion on the subject ends with "it'll all work out."

Hello - It was strange reading your post because albeit slightly different- I am going to be in a very similar position to you when we do this move in a couple of months. I have always been the higher earner in my marriage (which sadly broke down) and now in my current relationship and with whom I'm moving to France - plus my two kids(6+4) from my previous marriage.

Once in France my job will be to run our gite business and basically be a stay at home Mum with the option if I need to perhaps do some freelance work back in England (but working remotely in France) - I'm lucky because I work in the New Media industry.

However, I have never been in a position of NOT being financially independent or earning my own salary. This is something that actually worries me as much as it worries my poor partner that he'll be financially responsible (or bringing in the monthly regular salary) for all 4 of us.

The reason I'm telling you this is because we've been totally honest about how this will or could impact on our relationship. Certainly I don't want the dynamics to change - i.e he wears the trousers. I like us being on an equilibrium financially and emotionally. I'm not very good at not having my own money - however, to reassure us both I KNOW that if I need to I will find work whether that be helping him and essentially becoming his researcher (which is quite a big humble pill for me to swallow) or sussing out some work back in London.

What you need to do is really really talk to your other half about how this is making you feel. If she responds 'It will work out and get better' but doesn't really listen to your needs and feelings then you're heading down a rocky road. Not only have you moved to France but your whole self esteem is suffering because you can't get work and as you cite in your last post - that you feel you're in a no man's land. You need her support and understanding now more than ever. She should listen to you - like you would listen to her.

I for sure know that words are easier than actions and I will definitely find this board and the support my life line when we finally 'do' the move.

Try and talk to her - really seriously - and just make her understand how you feel. You probably need a reassuring hug too!

Sorry for epistle!

Lx