We might be moving to Manosque

[Le Tigre]

Hello to the board!

We are currently living in Portland, OR in the U.S. My husband just received a job offer from an international project in France. We would need to live in or close to Manosque, France (about 30 minutes from Aix-en-Provence?) since this is where the school for my children would be.

I have many questions and need some answers this week since he needs to accept or decline in 7 days. Any resources you can point me to would be helpful!!!

We are having difficulty figuring out if the salary offer is functional for us to live there, with him being the only financial provider for our family.

Questions:

What are the average monthly costs for renting a house in the Manosque area?

What do the utilities usually run for a house (monthly)?

What are average leases for cars like in France? We are unsure at this point if we will be able to take our current car over, as it is a lease.

What is the cost of living in general for the South of France area?

What would a family of four (maybe five in one or two years) need to make so we are not living from pay check to pay check? My kids are still very young and I don not speak the language yet so working for me at this time is not an option.

Thanks for any help you can give us to know that we will be making a decision where we have success living in France.

[Bevdeforges]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Like lots of the questions involving a big move, many of the answers boil down to "it depends." I take it you've found a US or International school in Manosque that you like. It is definitely an option to send your kids to the French public schools (certainly cheaper!) but that depends on the ages of the children and the area. There are plenty of English speaking expats in the Aix area (often Brits) as well as a couple of anglophone expat organizations.

Average costs for renting and costs for utilities are hard to calculate without knowing what you're looking for. Homes in France are generally much smaller than what you're used to in the US. If you insist on finding a place with comparable space to your US home, you'll pay through the nose. And utilities are quite different, given the different climate. For example, it's not uncommon to have homes with no central heating, even in the north of France. (I live in such a house, about 40 km from Paris.) Forget about air conditionning - it's rare in private homes, though getting more common in shopping centers and large public venues, particularly in the south.

People don't lease cars here in France like they do in the US. If you don't get a car as part of the job, you just buy one. I wouldn't plan on taking a car from the US - even "world models" tend to use different parts. I had a boss who brought his Nissan sports car over from the US. After a minor accident, the German insurance company insisted on totalling the car because it would be so expensive to import the necessary parts to fix this particular model.

Living out in Manosque would probably make two cars an absolute necessity, especially if you're not going to be working and don't speak the language. You'll need and want to head into Aix on a regular basis, and possibly to Marseille and Toulon. Despite what you've heard, public transit is not that common outside the larger cities, and town to town transport is never really great. You might do better to base where you live on where your husband will be working. (Chances are you won't be allowed to work on the visa you'll have.)

Do make sure he'll be on the local payroll, with "cotisations" paid to the French social insurances programs. If not, make inquiries about the health insurance and retirement benefits of the job.

In short, it should be possible to live quite nicely on an amount that would sound paltry in the US, but only if you adopt the French lifestyle to a certain degree. It also depends a great deal on whether you consider this a "permanent" move or just an overseas assignment for a couple of years, as that will determine whether or not you need to maintain your US based plans and programs.
Cheers,
Bev

[Le Tigre]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Like lots of the questions involving a big move, many of the answers boil down to "it depends." I take it you've found a US or International school in Manosque that you like. It is definitely an option to send your kids to the French public schools (certainly cheaper!) but that depends on the ages of the children and the area. There are plenty of English speaking expats in the Aix area (often Brits) as well as a couple of anglophone expat organizations.

Average costs for renting and costs for utilities are hard to calculate without knowing what you're looking for. Homes in France are generally much smaller than what you're used to in the US. If you insist on finding a place with comparable space to your US home, you'll pay through the nose. And utilities are quite different, given the different climate. For example, it's not uncommon to have homes with no central heating, even in the north of France. (I live in such a house, about 40 km from Paris.) Forget about air conditionning - it's rare in private homes, though getting more common in shopping centers and large public venues, particularly in the south.

People don't lease cars here in France like they do in the US. If you don't get a car as part of the job, you just buy one. I wouldn't plan on taking a car from the US - even "world models" tend to use different parts. I had a boss who brought his Nissan sports car over from the US. After a minor accident, the German insurance company insisted on totalling the car because it would be so expensive to import the necessary parts to fix this particular model.

Living out in Manosque would probably make two cars an absolute necessity, especially if you're not going to be working and don't speak the language. You'll need and want to head into Aix on a regular basis, and possibly to Marseille and Toulon. Despite what you've heard, public transit is not that common outside the larger cities, and town to town transport is never really great. You might do better to base where you live on where your husband will be working. (Chances are you won't be allowed to work on the visa you'll have.)

Do make sure he'll be on the local payroll, with "cotisations" paid to the French social insurances programs. If not, make inquiries about the health insurance and retirement benefits of the job.

In short, it should be possible to live quite nicely on an amount that would sound paltry in the US, but only if you adopt the French lifestyle to a certain degree. It also depends a great deal on whether you consider this a "permanent" move or just an overseas assignment for a couple of years, as that will determine whether or not you need to maintain your US based plans and programs.
Cheers,
Bev

Thank you for the reply!

As we understand it, my husband’s project is sponsoring an international school that would reduce our school cost or may even make it free.

As for renting a house/apartment, we have two children, so we would need a three bedroom. As I understand it, this means a four piece, correct.

His commitment would be for five years and after that it can be renewed for another five years.

The gross salary is around 68000 Eros and we have calculated the net to be around 50,890 Euros a year. Does this sound possible for a family to live on? We are very sustainable in our living philosophy but things will have to be purchased in France. Example: most of our electronics would not be coming with us because of the adaptor issue.

Also could you better define what adopting the French lifestyle means so I can truly understand and implement for our family?

Thanks for your time! We are feeling so under informed about all this to feel confident accepting the offer, so any information is VERY helpful as our days count down.

[Bevdeforges]

Moving to another country and culture is always an overwhelming experience. If your husband is going to be working at the international school, then by all means, live as close to it as you can!

The salary you quoted is perfectly adequate (actually quite nice) for a family of four, or even five! (And Ive lost count of the number of expats I know who have a baby in France, due to the excellent maternity care you'll receive!)

The French way of life takes a bit of getting used to, coming from the US. Learning French would be a great start. Reading up on the culture of the area - chateaux, history, artists, etc. - is another good start. The French are immensely proud of their culture and if you show the slightest interest in it, they'll normally be only too happy to "share."

There is an AVF (Accueil des Villes Françaises - a welcome group for newcomers) in Manosque, which you should contact as soon as you hit town. These groups often have activities for "foreigners" and sometimes French language circles where you can practice your French as you learn it. They also run local outings and activities so you can make friends - both French and foreigners.

A three bedroom house would be ideal (and yes, I think that's what is referred to as a "4 pièces") but you have to stop thinking in terms of a "master bedroom" and "children's rooms." In France, bedrooms are for sleeping, and storing your clothes. The kids might have a desk or table in their bedroom, but generally they are expected to do their homework out in the "common room" or "dining room" where Mom and Dad can help out. (The school day is longer in France - not sure how the international school will handle things - and the kids get homework starting in the first year.) We live in a 3 bedroom house that is officially rated as having 110m2 of living space - about 1,200 sq. ft and smaller than the 2 bedroom townhouse I owned in the US when I was single. DH and his ex raised their two kids here (though they actually finished off what is supposed to be an "attic storage" area to make a "master bedroom" that has never been declared to the local mairie).

There are little things that will drive you nuts at first, but after your second or third trip back to the States, you'll wonder if you'll be able to re-adapt to US style living. Small example (I could write a book - in fact I'm thinking of doing just that) - convenience foods don't exist in anywhere near the same variety as in the US. You buy what my French husband calls "real food" and you prepare and cook it the way you like. Takes more time, but the results are really good. You also start using butter instead of margarine and start eating all sorts of things they claim are "bad" for you in the US because they taste good - and the portions are much smaller. In any event, you do your shopping more often - and you get to know your local baker, butcher and traiteur (like a delicatessen, with take-away dishes you can just heat up or serve as is).

It will take a while to get used to the health care system, but considering you're reimbursed for almost everything, it's well worth the effort and aggravation. All dealings with the "administration" (i.e. the government) are a PITA, but even the locals admit that - after a while it becomes a game. And you will go through periods where you wonder whatever possessed you to move here. But that, too, shall pass.

Be sure to post any questions here as they come up. You're looking at an incredible adventure.
Cheers,
Bev

[Le Tigre]

Thanks for all the great information and advice! At this point we are almost sure we will take the offer and move. The earliest would be January, as an international move would need at minimum two months.

Here is another question: How are the prices for furniture in France? I saw that there is an IKEA in the South of France and that works well for our taste. However, we are very committed to buying used and recycling in order to not feed the consumer driven circle for our planet. We are looking at all our belongings, what to sell, give away, store and what to take. Luckily we are simple people and do not have lots of huge furniture to take. Only a few special items, pictures, some cook wear (cast iron pans I love), toys, clothes, files, etc.

Any advice for us as we make the decisions about what gets taken with us?

I know basically all our electronics will be useless, like kitchen appliances. My main concern is that my son has some favorite dvds and they will not run on models in France. Should be just bring our tv w/ dvd player built in for him?

Off to brain storm for more questions.

Thanks so much for your help

[Bevdeforges]

Bring the DVDs. Despite them being marked as NTSC or whatever, they do definitely run on the TVs over here, provided you buy a really cheap DVD player that doesn't have zoning on it. (You can often have a zone DVD player de-zoned, too.) Or, if they don't run for any reason on the TV you get here, just play them on your computer. (I run two DVD programs - one for zone 1 and one for zone 2.) The NTSC designation doesn't seem to have any relevance for DVDs. (I'm currently working my way through the first two seasons of Hill Street Blues, purchased as Target on my last trip to the US.)

If you come in January, chances are you'll miss the big local "brocantes" (which are basically rummage sales, usually organized by the towns to avoid any VAT hassles). If you want used furniture, that's usually the place to find it. There are also some brocante shops in some areas, but prices vary all over the place.
Cheers,
Bev

[Le Tigre]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

Bring the DVDs. Despite them being marked as NTSC or whatever, they do definitely run on the TVs over here, provided you buy a really cheap DVD player that doesn't have zoning on it. (You can often have a zone DVD player de-zoned, too.) Or, if they don't run for any reason on the TV you get here, just play them on your computer. (I run two DVD programs - one for zone 1 and one for zone 2.) The NTSC designation doesn't seem to have any relevance for DVDs. (I'm currently working my way through the first two seasons of Hill Street Blues, purchased as Target on my last trip to the US.)

If you come in January, chances are you'll miss the big local "brocantes" (which are basically rummage sales, usually organized by the towns to avoid any VAT hassles). If you want used furniture, that's usually the place to find it. There are also some brocante shops in some areas, but prices vary all over the place.
Cheers,
Bev

Well my husband took the job offer today! We will be leaving the states early/mid January 2009

Still some things to figure out and resolve but the clock ended. It will be a push but I'm sure we can get it together.

Any advice on things/items that we should stock up on and have the international movers pack for us?

I'm going to try to get some basics like more clothes in the next size up for our kids bought here in the US. That way I will not have to worry about trying to shop for a lot without speaking French and adjusting to the whole Euro issue.

However, I'd love advice on the things that you had that made your transition smoother or the things you wished you have brought (or brought more of) with you.

I'm also having a difficult time on the issue of appliances and electronics. I will have to sell most of our fully functioning items for not much or basically give away because of the incompatibility.

Do the adaptors really work? We are trying to decide if it is worth even trying with some appliances or just replacing EVERYTHING.

[Bevdeforges]

Congratulations - you're in for an exciting adventure, I'm sure.

It's possible to run a few things on converters or transformers. Converters (the things you get in the travel shops) will handle small, simple appliances (hairdryer, crock pot, etc.) while you need a transformer for larger things. I would do everything you can to avoid having to use either - though if you have a crock pot, I'd bring it along. Such things are unheard of in France and I have wound up bringing two (small) ones back with me from the US just for the convenience.

You can bring anything electronic that says on the UL label that it runs on 110/240 power. (Namely computers and often many rechargeable small electronics - cameras, mobile phones, etc.)

One word of warning - don't buy much (any?) new stuff to take over with you. Anything you bring in on your shipment that you've owned less than one year (and you have to indicate that on the shipping list for insurance purposes) will cost you 19.6% VAT to import. If you do import new stuff, don't ship it with price tags still on. They don't often go through your stuff when it clears customs, but if they do, and they find price tags still on, they're going to check everything.

Shopping for clothes and other stuff is a great way to start learning French - just make sure you can see the total on the cash register display so you don't have to worry about numbers right away. They often do rummage sales for children's clothing on a regular basis where you can pick up very reasonably priced clothing and swap off what your kids have outgrown. Part of getting involved in the community!

And much of the stuff you may miss from the US is available from the UK by mail order or Internet. Though it seems cheaper in the US, it's normally by the VAT amount - and if you order it by mail from the US, you'll pay VAT on the item and the shipping costs.
Cheers,
Bev

[Musician]

Hiya,

I've just joined the expat forum as we're moving to Manosque in February. Fortunately my husband's worked there before (at the same international site that your husband's contemplating, I would think) so we have a good idea how far his salary will stretch. I'm afraid I can't really answer any of your questions as he's the one with local knowledge, but I just wondered if you had decided to accept the job. If so we must keep in touch! It's a lovely place. How good is your French?

[Musician]

>Well my husband took the job offer today! We will be leaving the states early/mid January 2009

Oops - just saw this later post! Great to hear you're taking the plunge, and I have to say that I'm really impressed with the advice dished out by moderators etc on this site. We're arriving end January, from Switzerland. BTW, I'm Anglo-American. Good luck with all the packing!