Moving to Cote d'Azur with ill teen and father

[missingmenton]

Bev I am so appreciative! Alianz sounds very familiar and I am wondering if I was with this company when a student back in the 80's.

I am correct in assuming/understanding that there is NO long term visa for which one can apply *after* departing one's home country and while on French soil. Correct?

For example, I cannot travel to France on a tourist visa and then apply for a Long Visa (retirement). Correct?

I must apply before departure. Do you know what sort of time frame is involved in securing a retirement visa before departing?

[missingmenton]

Bev, below is a post you wrote in 2009 on this forum. Great information! However, I have not been able to determine the "minimum" amount required on any website including the French consulate in the US. I am not of "retirement" age, being in my 40's, and do not have a pension. Perhaps that eliminates this as a possibility under french law? Anyone can retire. One's finances decide this not one's age or pension. My finances come from real estate endeavors. If memory serves me well, nothing in France is cut and dried. Ambiguity goes hand in hand with nearly everything one attempts to clarify. Have things crystalized since 2009 or do we still not know what exactly the requirements are?


Bev wrote in post in 2009 on France Expat Forum:
(note: below is an old post)
When I was working for a somewhat "avant garde" computer company, we had a standard included on our evaluation forms for "tolerance of ambiguity." If you're planning on coming to France, you had better have that in spades! The finances section of the visa requirements is only the start.

The visas in France aren't really broken down into categories the way they are in the US. There is no "retirement" visa as such. What you're looking at is a "visa with no working privileges" which means that you have to have income resources adequate (in the estimation of the fonctionnaire who handles your dossier) to live reasonably without being tempted to take a job on the sly. And, you also have to give a reason for coming to France without working that sounds plausible. "Retirement" is fine - provided you are retirement age and have some source of income.

The websites of several of the French consulates in the US have suggested minimum figures, but if you read carefully, these figures are not definitive. They are perfectly capable of approving an application where someone has less than the amount cited - and rejecting one where the person is making well above that figure. And they don't actually have to give you a reason if they reject your application, though they often do.

I suspect that what they may mean about proving employment in the country of residence is proof of your prior employment (i.e. that led to your having the pension you are basing your application upon). The US system of self-save retirement funds makes things a little bit trickier.
Cheers,
Bev

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by missingmenton

I am correct in assuming/understanding that there is NO long term visa for which one can apply *after* departing one's home country and while on French soil. Correct?

Basically, yes. There are limited circumstances where you can apply for a change in status (i.e. for your titre de séjour) - but those involve marriage or civil union with a French citizen. And the requirement in those cases is that you must already be in France on a long stay visa.

For example, I cannot travel to France on a tourist visa and then apply for a Long Visa (retirement). Correct?

Absolutely correct.

I must apply before departure. Do you know what sort of time frame is involved in securing a retirement visa before departing?

Most consulates recommend allowing 2 to 3 months for processing and issuance of nearly any sort of long-stay visa.
Cheers,
Bev

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by missingmenton

Bev, below is a post you wrote in 2009 on this forum. Great information! However, I have not been able to determine the "minimum" amount required on any website including the French consulate in the US.

In another thread here just today I mentioned this. They used to give a guideline minimum amount - basically a "don't even think about applying if you don't have at least this much coming in" but between exchange rate fluctuations and other changes, most consulates appear to have dropped any reference to a specific figure.

I have been advising people to work around the current SMIC (French minimum wage) as I think it's definitely justifiable. As of July 1st, the SMIC in France is now 1425€ per month - for a 35 hour work week. I wouldn't count on them approving a non-work visa application where the applicant's resources amounted to less than the SMIC per person (at least per adult).

I am not of "retirement" age, being in my 40's, and do not have a pension. Perhaps that eliminates this as a possibility under french law? Anyone can retire. One's finances decide this not one's age or pension. My finances come from real estate endeavors. If memory serves me well, nothing in France is cut and dried. Ambiguity goes hand in hand with nearly everything one attempts to clarify. Have things crystalized since 2009 or do we still not know what exactly the requirements are?

Being in your 40's makes the situation that much more difficult for you when it comes to convincing the consular officials that you are actually "retired" and won't be tempted to consider working under the table should finances get a little tight.

If you have a large amount of savings or investments that could provide an adequate income without your having to work, that could be considered adequate. But be careful with resources coming "from real estate endeavors" - once you're resident in France, your worldwide sources of income are then subject to French income tax (as well as your ongoing obligation to report and pay US taxes). If your endeavors are ongoing, then you will be considered to be "working" in France.

A very important part of the visa application is the question that asks you your "purpose" in coming to France. They will very often ask you to prove what you fill in for that question.
Cheers,
Bev

[missingmenton]

Bev you are amazing. Far better than the consulate I called today! You need to write a book. I'd buy ten copies to give to friends as well. I appreciate your posts so much as well as the treasure trove in the archives.

I will complete all transactions here before departing so no concerns there. Purpose. I suppose writing that we are coming for the Joie de Vivre is out. We are coming for a multitude of reasons, medical being the primary one. Study being secondary. To permanently settle and retire being third on the list. In all honesty I'm actually not too sure which visa is best for us. I understand from your posts on the forum that there is no specific "retirement" visa but rather a long stay visa specifying use for retirement. This seems far more difficult than simply obtaining a student visa.

You mentioned one must go home when the program is over. Do you mean after completion of the entire program or even for the summer. I do not recall ever going home for the summer. The student visa was good for one year.

Although I could prove financial independence and ability to support my family, the visa geared for retirement purposes does seem to be more difficult for someone my age. Did I understand correctly that one must repeat the process every year?? Is one merely trying to convince them you have the funds to support yourself/family for one year? That seems odd considering retirement does not mean one year.

The student visa seems the easiest for myself and later for my son when he is school worthy. My father however, I'm not sure what to do about his visa. I will be supporting him and I am his caretaker. Any suggestions? Our situation seems not to fall within the norm.

Thank you again Bev for your very informative and helpful posts!

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by missingmenton

Bev you are amazing. Far better than the consulate I called today! You need to write a book. I'd buy ten copies to give to friends as well. I appreciate your posts so much as well as the treasure trove in the archives.

The problem is that this stuff changes all the time and I think it would be next to impossible to keep a book up to date.

I will complete all transactions here before departing so no concerns there. Purpose. I suppose writing that we are coming for the Joie de Vivre is out. We are coming for a multitude of reasons, medical being the primary one. Study being secondary. To permanently settle and retire being third on the list. In all honesty I'm actually not too sure which visa is best for us. I understand from your posts on the forum that there is no specific "retirement" visa but rather a long stay visa specifying use for retirement. This seems far more difficult than simply obtaining a student visa.

You mentioned one must go home when the program is over. Do you mean after completion of the entire program or even for the summer. I do not recall ever going home for the summer. The student visa was good for one year.

No, the requirement to return home is when the entire program is done (i.e. and you have your diploma or certificate). On a student visa, you're allowed to work part time, and many students "save" their working allotment for summer and school vacations rather than interfering with their studies during the year.

Although I could prove financial independence and ability to support my family, the visa geared for retirement purposes does seem to be more difficult for someone my age. Did I understand correctly that one must repeat the process every year?? Is one merely trying to convince them you have the funds to support yourself/family for one year? That seems odd considering retirement does not mean one year.

You don't repeat the visa process every year - just renewing the carte de séjour. That's when they check that you've paid up your health insurance for the coming year.

The student visa seems the easiest for myself and later for my son when he is school worthy. My father however, I'm not sure what to do about his visa. I will be supporting him and I am his caretaker. Any suggestions? Our situation seems not to fall within the norm.

As long as you're over there on a long-stay visa (even a non-working "visitor" visa), your son is entitled to attend public school as your dependent. Your father could get his own retirement visa, with you as his financial support (though if he's getting social security from the US, that counts as support, too, don't forget).

Going over on a student visa is fraught with risks for someone your age, particularly if you intend on staying "indefinitely". If you have adequate resources, you should be able to show that you don't need to work and while the visa may be a little more difficult to get, staying on and renewing your carte de séjour will wind up being simpler in the long run.
Cheers,
Bev

[missingmenton]

Bev wrote:
Going over on a student visa is fraught with risks for someone your age, particularly if you intend on staying "indefinitely". If you have adequate resources, you should be able to show that you don't need to work and while the visa may be a little more difficult to get, staying on and renewing your carte de séjour will wind up being simpler in the long run.

Thank you Bev. I didn't realize my Father could get his own long stay visa based upon my "retirement" long stay visa. I believe you are correct. I would be able to show financial independence so I believe this is the way to go. I agree. I am sorry I have forgotten what this visa is called. Simply Long Stay Visa? How does one communicate to them that you intend to secure one for retirement. When I looked at the requirements...you basically have to turn yourself inside out and bare all. On a student visa you don't have to do any of that. I do intend to study in France at a four year college/part time for a degree in the medical/healing arts. It would not be "student visa for french language classes".

Bev what is risky about a student visa? I realize my Father would not be eligible for this. I realize what you are conveying....the "retirement" long stay would be the most beneficial of us as a family. Everyone is covered under the "retirement" long stay. My Father would not be under the student visa.

If I secured a student visa, my son would automatically be able to attend some type of school under my visa (he is not yet school worthy health wise)....would my father be able to secure a long stay visa based on teh fact that I support him?

Thank you.

[Bevdeforges]

What I was actually suggesting was that your father get his own "retirement" visa. You could provide a letter of support, but I assume he is getting some form of Social Security or other pension income, which should put him in a position to qualify on his own for the visa.
Cheers,
Bev

[missingmenton]

Yes. Of course. He could indeed get his own. I understand now. I am his caretaker but he most certainly could obtain his own retirement visa.

Bev, what is risky about a student visa?

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by missingmenton

Bev, what is risky about a student visa?

Basically your ability to renew it (or rather the titre de séjour) multiple times. Ultimately, you're expected to go back home after the completion of your studies.

OTOH, if you're on a "visitor" or "retirement" visa, you can still enroll in classes with little or no difficulty - and no expectation that you'll leave France at the end of the program.
Cheers,
Bev