CREDIT CRUNCH RENT v BUY

[livinglavie]

Hello,
Just interested in finding out views on renting and buying in France especially as every time I turn on the news there are french people arguing about the definition of recession! Also despite my insular little existence one cant fail to notice the collapse of banks around the world!

We have lived in France for a little over 12 months and have been renting a gite long term from a british couple. Paying nearly 900 euros per month. (RIPPED OFF!!!) We are now relocating but renting again at 500 euros a month with a slightly smaller house (no conservatory), but more land. This rental is from a french family and through an Agent. The land is flatter, as we have had terrible problems with a boggy field at the last place. It all just seems more rosy.

We did consider buying and offered on a farm house with 20+ acres, but the offer was rejected as we wanted to rent for 12 months first to liquidise assets in the UK, not easy at the current time!
Interestingly three days after they turned us down on the rental proposition (and we rented another house in the meantime) they are now back to offer us a deal...but we are commited to our plans, and have a feeling that this house will be available for less in 12 months!, as it is empty it is their loss, we had offered them 800 euros a month, given the size and location of the property!

ALSO to those of you thinking on relocating to france....Don't let your owner (if renting) make you pay full fonciere and habitation taxes. You are, I am given to understand by my notaire, liable for full habitation (Like council tax) but only the trash/rubbish collection part of the fonciere! I have been paying 900 Euros for this last year, another thing my English owners didn't tell me!, and why would they they didn't have to pay it because i did!

Other problems we had were.... heated pool....yes but only by the sun!.....Barn with converted downstairs room and shower facilities.....plaster boarded subsiding room, with mouse family already in occupation.....2 1/2 acres of gently sloping land.....very boggy and unusable around the barn..overgrown...no equipment provided to maintain land had to buy it all and pay farmer to cut field...overlooked by three houses one of which was a business with up to 100 families a week 200 in the summer looking straight at out swimming pool... very private! PLEASE DONT RENT VIA THE NET WITHOUT SEEING THE PROPERTY !!!!! WE HAVE BEEN VERY HAPPY HERE DESPITE THE 300 Euros too much per month and the lack of privacy but having met the previos six people renting it over the last three years... we are not the only disgruntled ones!!!

[redneck]

I've been wondering the same thing but I've just put a deposit down on a flat today so i guess I'm biting the bullet and going for it.

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by livinglavie

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Don't let your owner (if renting) make you pay full fonciere and habitation taxes. You are, I am given to understand by my notaire, liable for full habitation (Like council tax) but only the trash/rubbish collection part of the fonciere!

Um, maybe it's a difference by region or something, but AFAIK the owner of the property pays the taxe foncière (in full) and the person living in the property pays the taxe d'habitation. That's how my husband does it with the house he owns in the North. The taxe d'habitation bill is sent directly to the people living there.

The situation in France when it comes to renting is quite different from in the "anglo-saxon" countries and does take a bit of getting used to. But you are absolutely correct in saying that you should NOT rent property over the Internet. Make sure you see it first in person (and preferably at a couple different times of day, just to be sure).

Of course, that said, my husband and I were looking at property to buy a few years ago. I was appalled at the condition of some of the homes we looked at - but the attitude here seems to be that the buyer is going to make renovations anyhow, so why fix up the property before you sell it?
Cheers,
Bev

[livinglavie]

Originally Posted by redneck

I've been wondering the same thing but I've just put a deposit down on a flat today so i guess I'm biting the bullet and going for it.

good luck!!!

[parsnips]

Hi,
Whether renting is a good thing depends first of all on your landlord(proprietaire); We came to France 15 years ago looking to rent while we looked for a house to buy. We didn't know that, in those days, finding a house to rent in the countryside ( Charente- Maritime), was very difficult.
We were very lucky to ask a notaire on the same day that a house became available. We rented it on a standard 3 yr lease (tacitly renewable), and are still here. Our proprietaire is a local builder, who has about 8 houses which he regards as a future pension for his wife, so he keeps them in good repair without having to be pressed.
Our house he built himself for his first marriage,in 1974, and is on 2500m2 garden with a 36mé salon, 3 beds, large kitchen ,bathroom, large office/ 4th bed, garage , outhouses ,oil central heating and open wood fire , for which the original rent was eqiuv.€380 pmth and which was not increased until 2005 when it went up to €450. Three years ago the whole roof was replaced and he has just decided to install a new shower cabinet.
He and his wife have assured us that if we wish we can stay for life.
It must be said that not all proprietaires are this good, we had friends who rented from a widow who had only one house, from which she was trying to squeeze the maximum profit(understandably in her circs); she never had any money to do maintenance and eventually the house became unlivable.
French rental is very different from the UK in that the tenant is much better protected.
Briefly, in an unfurnished let ,the lease is for a minimum 3 yrs tacitly renewable ( ie. unless the proprietaire serves notice, in a strictly regulated form, for serious motives, such as damage to the property, or continuing default on rent,the lease goes on indefinitely--the tenant can give 3mths notice) ;
If the owner wishes to sell, he must first give the tenant the opportunity to buy at a fair price(the tenant can dispute an inflated price at tribunal).
Otherwise, only if the owner wishes to occupy the house himself, or needs it for immediate family, can he give a tenant notice(6 mnths)
Now is a good time to rent, especially in the South-west, because the country is glutted with buy to rent properties, built as a result of Bank-promoted tax-saving schemes that have ,as is often the way, ended in tears for gullible investors who ,unable to get a reasonable rent , are looking to either rent or sell at much reduced rates(it should be possible to negotiate a deal to rent with a view to buying if the house is suitable)

[giantpanda]

[

Hi!

It will depend on different factors:

Apart from isolated houses in the countryside, you will find that the demand for rentals is rather high, and that the prices are not going down.

On houses the prices are going down.

But till when?

In papersz they write if you are buying to get added value, and not to stay very long, then rent;

If you are buying to stay, and you are dependant on added value, and you have the necessary cash, it may be soon the time to buy ( wait till winter ).

Yours,

giantpanda

PS. Lsten to Europe Nr1 now ( 6.40 pm ) they are discussing the matter - but down not take people calling too seriously.

[redneck]

Originally Posted by livinglavie

good luck!!!

thanks

In the meantime I've got a couple of months to kill with nowhere to stay.
The estate agent here told me it never rains in Sete but I just spent the whole night listening to it and its still coming down.
They'll tell you anything won't they.

[barbara preston]

Hello, we have very recently moved from southern spain to Deux Sevres, renting for a twelve months period. Our house in Spain is being let for the same period with the tenants hav¡ng the option to purchase at the end of that period. We are keeping our fingers crossed that they will buy as I, especially, do not want to return to the heat, dust, flies, litter etc.. We spent a week in Charente Maritime earlier this year and liked the area very much but unfortunately could not find a suitable rental in that area. It sounds as though your landlord is a decent man, I wonder if he has any property to let at the moment? What is life like in Charente Maritime, a huge question I know, but where we are at the moment is beautiful but a bit isolated and we really want to be somewhere we can see other folks, nearer to a town and with some social activities. I am 64 and Peter is 72, he plays golf and I love crafting, the countryside etc. and we both love to see the local wild life, birds especially. We also have 4 lovely cats who need to be in a safe area to allow them the freedom they have always been used to. Any info. you can give would be most gratefully appreciated. Best wishes, Barbara

[parsnips]

Originally Posted by barbara preston

Hello, we have very recently moved from southern spain to Deux Sevres, renting for a twelve months period. Our house in Spain is being let for the same period with the tenants hav¡ng the option to purchase at the end of that period. We are keeping our fingers crossed that they will buy as I, especially, do not want to return to the heat, dust, flies, litter etc.. We spent a week in Charente Maritime earlier this year and liked the area very much but unfortunately could not find a suitable rental in that area. It sounds as though your landlord is a decent man, I wonder if he has any property to let at the moment? What is life like in Charente Maritime, a huge question I know, but where we are at the moment is beautiful but a bit isolated and we really want to be somewhere we can see other folks, nearer to a town and with some social activities. I am 64 and Peter is 72, he plays golf and I love crafting, the countryside etc. and we both love to see the local wild life, birds especially. We also have 4 lovely cats who need to be in a safe area to allow them the freedom they have always been used to. Any info. you can give would be most gratefully appreciated. Best wishes, Barbara

Hi Barbara,
We live in the extreme south of Charente-Maritime and there always seems to be a number of houses to let in our local immobiliers, and the supermarket notice boards--I cannot vouch for their suitability. I will ask our landlord when I see him.
The countryside is quite wild round here-lots of forest with deer and wild boar,birds of prey, etc; but you're never far from good supermarkets, doctors etc.
There are quite a lot of brits (not too many-yet), and a lot of golfers(not including me, I fear), there are several french classes and an anglo-french association, which, in addition to classes(for both english and french learners), organises outings and meals. There are many dinners and dances in the villages, organised by the hunts, the football clubs and the local councils, usually attended by a number of Brits as well as the locals, who we have always found very friendly and welcoming.
The cost of living here is among the lowest in France, as it is a low-wage area, and rents and house prices also tend to be at the lower end of the spectrum.
If you want answers to any specific questions you can send me a personal message c/o this forum.

[barbara preston]

Hello again, many thanks for such a prompt reply. We are planning to come down to Charente Maritime during the next few days. Whereabouts do you live, it would be good for us to look at your area. Best wishes, Barbara