Loneliness, the big foe for expats in France

[audreyc]

Wow, I wish we were going to be living in the same city. (I'm moving to Nice.) I think you and I would get on swimmingly. Admittedly, I do want a kid (although I'm not a kid kind of person,) I, otherwise, could've almost written your post.

Like you, I am in my early 30s and currently a housewife and have no specific passion- although eating/cooking and enjoying life are the closest thing to a passion I could claim. I had a career up until 9 months ago, but always fantasized about the day I could walk away. I'm also a sensitive type at work and always hated having a jerk boss to whom I never felt I could properly stand up. When I get flustered at people of authority I just cry instead of actually verbalizing my frustration (out of fear.) I can also sympathize with having to make do with your husband's social circle. My husband's friends are all in the opera/ballet circles and while I do enjoy their company, I also often feel left out since I do not sing or have a wide breadth of music vocabulary. I have also found that many people who I think are my friends are actually just trying to get close to my husband. Not a nice realization! Likewise, I don't care about fashion. I also don't give a fig about celebrity culture or popular TV shows.

Anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to get so into my own story--yours just made me reflect on my own in which I find similarities.

[Bevdeforges]

It's interesting for me to read about some of you going through some of the same things I dealt with (several) years ago. In my case, I went through a whole series of ups and downs on the issue (along with other things I had to deal with on arrival in France). Finally one day I just decided that the only way to get over the loneliness and the frustration was to get out there and do something about it.

I tried at first with the expat groups in Paris, but I didn't care for always being with people who seemed so firmly still attached to "The Old Country." And one of the expat groups prided itself on being "the permanent residents" - those who were staying in France (because they were married to French men) rather than "transients" (the women through on a 1, 2 or 3 year rotation with their husbands). In the book "Le Divorce" the author calls this expat group "the snobby group" and I have to say I agree. (The book, by Diane Johnson, is well worth a read.)

Even if you were living back in the States, you'd have people who move away after a couple of years or who have kids and kind of withdraw into their parental role. That's life. I'm a bit older than either of the two of you "childfree" types, and at my age I'm hitting the French ladies who are all wrapped up with being a Grandma (and here in France, this means they no longer have Wednesdays free and often have to go pick the kids up at school at 4:30 while Mom works).

The thing is to put yourself out there and meet people and do stuff you're interested in doing. Volunteer for something - AVF, Red Cross or whatever. You may or may not always like the people you're working with, but you'll meet all kinds and you can pick and choose those you want to pursue a real friendship with. Do stuff online (like I'm doing right now!) - and make your own trips back home to the US to visit friends and family when you feel the need to visit. (My French husband actually doesn't particularly like to travel, so I go on my own. And actually, I have a better time in the US on my own these days.)
Cheers,
Bev

[snoezig]

audreyc: maybe you are my long lost "twin". I was looking through a couple of your posts and I noticed that you spent 2 years in London. I spent 4 years in the UK, of which one year was spent in London. Where did you live? I lived between Bayswater and Royal Oak. The other three years I lived in Wales.

Too bad you are moving to Nice, well, too bad for me, as it seems like everyone I know lives on the other side of the country. When do you know if your husband's visa has been approved?

I hate celebrity culture and TV shows as well. Actually this is a part of what I was referring to when I talked about being alienated from North Americans. I find that the French care a lot less about these things. They like movies and music a lot though. I am not a big cinema goer so sometimes I force myself to go with them while they are so excited. In some ways I feel like I should have been my age in the 1950s - I hate that because I am young, other young people think that I have to love all these 3D, 4D, computer enhanced/generated, violent films. I just want real acting and real people just like the old days. Am I making any sense? I love talking with elderly French people about this, they totally agree with me!

I hate the office culture and politics. Whenever I work a traditional job I have major problems with insomnia, because I am so worried about things. I am really bothered by catty people at work. Of course there are usually a lot of good colleagues, but the ones that are unfriendly and competitive (and there are always these people) just stay on my mind. And then inevitably I feel extremely sleepy at work, because I never sleep well at night. I wouldn't dare stand up to anybody bothering me, especially in France as the hierarchy doesn't allow for that.

I love wine and eating. Maybe a bit too much... I love cooking too, but I am not really so good at it. I have always just been average at anything I have ever done in my life. I feel like I am still looking for that one passion is hidden in me, something that I am talented in that just needs to be discovered. I may be looking for the rest of my life...

Maybe we should exchange emails?

[qiubuo]

This talk of being "child-free" is really interesting. I'm not child-free myself, but I can see how it would be seen as "abnormal" in France. I once worked with a middle-aged French woman who became really irate because a coworker had asked her if she had children - she found it really inappropriate to ask someone of her age. I didn't really understand why, but I can see how she might have felt like it was some kind of critique or something.

I have also been going through a period of feeling lonely, and I understand what you are talking about Snoezig, as my husband is a scientist and when we get together with his friends they are always talking science, or even worse, office politics. Most of my friends here are fellow foreigners. I do try to make French friends but I feel like it takes a really, really long time to get to know a French person. We have neighbors that we socialize with a little, but it always stays on the level of the annual neighbors' barbecue, etc. And of course the disadvantage of having kids is that it's hard to take part in any sort of activity that isn't kid-related.

Well, if you two want to meet up, Snoezig and Audrey, I'm in the middle! I'm in Toulouse. I haven't lived in London but I did live in Wales for two years a long, long time ago!

[CousteauMan]

I haven't read the whole thread but as a single dude with no kids, who doesn't smoke cigarette, or enjoy watching football (soccer).

I am extremely lonely. The people in this town I live in don't take too kindly to foreigners (I am Asian 100%) living in their town.

I like (love) basketball and this town thinks is a tapette sport. LOL and soccer is not for tapettes?

[qiubuo]

Do you feel people treat you differently because you're Asian? I'm half-Asian but people here can't really tell (they seem to think I'm Native American). But I was in town with an Asian-American friend once and I felt like people assumed she couldn't communicate with them because she was Asian. I'm from Southern California and moved here from Manhattan and I miss the diversity we had at home.

[CousteauMan]

Originally Posted by qiubuo

Do you feel people treat you differently because you're Asian? I'm half-Asian but people here can't really tell (they seem to think I'm Native American). But I was in town with an Asian-American friend once and I felt like people assumed she couldn't communicate with them because she was Asian. I'm from Southern California and moved here from Manhattan and I miss the diversity we had at home.

yes some random ppl laughed @ me for reasons i think had to do with me being Asian...but then its a small ignorant town...homogenous white isolated from foreigners ( though there is a sizable arab community in here)...the kind of town that marine lepen would consider a real french town ( la campagne ) and not those "bourgeois" from paris or "voyous arabes" from the banlieues...

the funny thing is their reaction when i started playing basketball with blacks and arabs...their world sort of crumbled when me the nerdy looking asian kid knew a thing or 2 about basketball...iwas yelling in american slang and they got jealous...

those kids are too young to remember that the youngest winner of mens tennis in rolland garros was...Michael CHANG !(taiwanese american)...and the basketball sensation from february in the NBA was Jeremy Lin ( taiwanese american too lol)

i miss the diversity from seattle (which is where lived) and even though ppl were not necessarily less racist they kept it to themselves or didnt care...asians in seattle were seen as "banalized" or mundane...nothing to stare @...just people...

[maartenvd]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

I figured out a long time ago that I'll probably never be "best friends" with a French woman here - simply because there are different expectations for "friendship" here than what I was raised with.

Bev, I wonder if you would expand on this--how are the expectations for friendship different in France than in North America? Is this more specific to women than men?

Still learning to navigate this... and figuring out how & where to make friends without the "kid connection".

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by maartenvd

Bev, I wonder if you would expand on this--how are the expectations for friendship different in France than in North America? Is this more specific to women than men?

Still learning to navigate this... and figuring out how & where to make friends without the "kid connection".

There is a book called "Cultural Misunderstandings" by Raymonde Carroll which discusses the differences between the French and American notions of "friendship." French distinguishes between a number of levels of friendship - and in order to be truly "friends" with a French person, it appears you have to have known them literally from childhood. The French reserve the word "ami" for these very close friends of long duration. Most other relationships are "copains" or "copines"which is basically someone you hang out with.

The one example I remember from the book is that, in France a true "friend" is someone who doesn't have to ask for a favor, the "friend" will anticipate their needs and provide for them. In the anglo-saxon tradition, a friend is someone you feel free to ask for help or for a favor, but who otherwise won't "intrude" on your life or territory.
Cheers,
Bev

[KateinWales]

Not yet moved permanently to France but joined AVF last year. They don't do a lot in my area - that's OK - but I've learned from other members that far from meeting French people as I'd hoped, I'm going to meet nearly all Dutch! There are loads of Dutch in my area, and they tend to pack out the AVF groups, and while I'm perfectly happy to know them, that's not really what I expected from a move to France. So I'm now learning Dutch, just in case...

Does anyone have any ideas for meeting actual French people?!