It has been implied to me in no uncertain terms that while we're caught up in the net of this new legislation, we're not their intended target. So, yes, life can indeed be grey rather than black and white.

I haven't ruled out renunciation but it would be a last resort.

I hear you but hope that the 'amnesty' was in fact not intended for the likes of some of us who unwittingly entered into it. This why I believe people like Peg are right to opt out.

Oh, I so hope you are right. O/T, I was thinking of you the other day. My son is going to Singapore for a course he entered into and has a placement exam on Dec. 28th. In order to get there on time and have some time to adjust for jet lag he'll have to leave Toronto on Dec. 23 and get there on the 26th Singapore time. His layover is twelve hours in London on Christmas Eve. I imagine Heathrow will be madness and most things will be closed so I suppose he cannot hope to leave the airport. Spending Christmas in the airport is not my idea of fun but, it has to be this way, he's paid for the course and HAS to be there on time ready to write the placement exam. Should have made this a pm. At any rate if you've any brilliant thoughts on things to do in Heathrow on Christmas send a pm my way.

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Dear U.S. government, 1984 was NOT an instruction manual.

I think we could still get off "scot-free". Not in the sense that we will get a letter from the IRS saying "Thank you for your filing, we don't want anything more from you", but I think its a real possibility that we will be completely ignored and hear nothing from the IRS.

That's the reason I chose to file at this time. To get on the radar as someone not worth their while to pursue. I maintain that it would be a diplomatic nightmare for the US to impose and pursue Canadian duals for fbar fines and regardless of what laws are actually on the books, they have neither the time, money, resources or political/diplomatic will to go after us (specifically us as Canadian dual citizens living in Canada).

I would imagine we are not their intended target and I hope they will totally ignore my 1040'sw/FUBARS too...........but one just never knows and it would seem awfully unfair to those who entered OVDI or did a silent disclosure if they got hit and we don't...

I would imagine we are not their intended target and I hope they will totally ignore my 1040'sw/FUBARS too...........but one just never knows and it would seem awfully unfair to those who entered OVDI or did a silent disclosure if they got hit and we don't...


While I 100% agree with your comment, one has to examine the OVDI program to first make a decision if that is the best route for them to go.

If you look at other amnesty programs, they are usually designed to allow people to come forward who know they are doing something wrong....do you remember the Canadian fire-arm amnesty when they told you to bring your un-registered fire arms in and there would be no questions or penalties attached?

Well....you knew you had an unregistered fire arm...you knew what the law of the land was....and this was your chance to avoid prosecution.

If any fault should be placed, it should be directed to the Lawyers and Accountants of this land who convinced people they should go into an amnesty program when they had nothing to hide.

Opting out of OVDI I think was a smart thing to do if you are innocent.

IMHO

I believe the OVDI was intended for people who purposely underreported; i.e., would have owed taxes to the IRS and were at risk of criminal penalties. It was especially aimed at US residents with unreported foreign bank accounts. The fact that the OVDI net caught so many people outside the target group is the result of fear-mongering by tax attorneys and accountants, expecially on the internet, as well as the IRS's own poorly designed, "one size fits all" application of the the program. It is still possible, according to the IRS website, to do a kind of "quiet disclosure" with an explanatory letter and not be penalized.

Yes, it simply doesn't make sense in an amnesty to seize up to 25% of someone's assets for merely fauling to submit a reporting form. But what it does make clear is that they mean business.

It's harsh enough that I've had to pay back thousands in back taxes with interest, especially as I'd innocently believed that as a longterm resident and dual citizen, that it was ok under the tax treaties to take advantage of tax shelter investments like ISAs. So it was a bitter pill to swallow because not only did I learn that my investments were liable to us capital gains tax, they were in faxt liabke to these taxes even though zi hadn't sold the funds. But in this particular instance, I blame myself for not having double checked the US taxtreatment of my uk investments. I had been naive and negligent so I have to deal with it.

But while I have suffered a hit with the unexpected tax bill and accounting costs, it will not bankrupt me whereas the fbar fines would.

This is just the thing. I had no idea about pfic taxation from unrealised capital gains plus had naively thought that it was enough that I was declaring my worldwide income on my uk tax returns because I thought the treaty protected me from onerous conditions and double taxation. As it's almost impossible to open a roth ira or regular ira account outside the us, isa's seemed to make sense as a resident of Britain.

I hadn't been aware of the saving clauses in the tax treaty that allow for double taxation against US persons. I feel badly let down though by the British as well because you'd have thought they would have warned me as an American citizen about blindly going into uk pooled investments. But I should have read the small print more clearly, looking back...you do need to keep your wits about you!

The IRS really constrains American expats. I can't have RESPs for my kids, a TFSA, or mutual funds outside of RRSPs, without being taxed by the IRS. Not to mention the difficult forms I'd probably have to pay someone to fill out to report on all of those.

Pretty much, I can pay off my mortgage with extra money, and/or have an RRSP (and I'm hoping the IRS doesn't introduce more reporting on this than it already has).

And what are expats to do in countries that have no sort of 8891 equivalent for the primary retirement accounts offered?