"Socialized medicine" - threat or menace?

[Bevdeforges]

As many of you may already know, there is a huge debate (politest term I can think of) in progress in the US over proposed changes to the health care system there. The air is thick with all sorts of misinformation about various "foreign" health care systems and their alleged failures - mostly involving the Canadian and UK systems (largely because all the information is available in English, I guess).

Over in the Canadian section, someone from the States has asked the question, "Gee is the Canadian system as bad as what we're hearing?" and I thought it might be interesting to throw the question out to the wider pool of expats here - especially those of you who know the American health care system and can make some useful comparisons - either to your system back home or to other systems you've lived under.

Is socialized medicine as bad as it is being portrayed in the US? (What the heck IS "socialized medicine" anyhow?) Do US expats yearn for their "free market" system back home, or do you wonder (as I do) if and how the folks back home lost their collective minds with all the idiotic objections they are raising to the prospect of a universal health care system?

For the expats in the US, would you like to see a national health care system implemented? What features from your home system would you like to see (or not) in the US plan?
Cheers,
Bev

[rotarise]

aww damn i thought you were talking about marijuana...but as for the topic yes i would like to see a national healthcare plan implemented the U:S Totally SUCKS WITH HEALTHCARE AND HOSPITALS..THERE CHARGE OUT THE ASS FOR **** INSURANCE OR NO INSURANCE....its crazy thats another reason i left..**** amerika i owe too much debt to them..spains better i got a flu the other day saw a doctor didnt wait long and got my medicine at a farmacy all in under 30 mins..thats nearly impossible in the states..ask me why i dont know. healthcare shoudl be included like it is here in spain but oh well thats why amerikas ****ed up they dont take car of business..all they care is money money money money ****in AMERICANS..im glad im not a american anymore..LOL

[Nickel]

It is interesting you ask this as I have been following the "debate" with great interest!!

As a healthcare professional, IMHO the US healthcare system is horrible!! It really is the worst for the lower middle class - those with jobs but make too much money to get Medicaid and not enough to pay the exhorbant health insurance prices!!

And then when people can't afford health insurance - where do they go? The ER - for constipation, because they broke a tooth....... well, you get it. This overburdens a system that is already at a breaking point. And even if you have insurance, heck you could go bankrupt with just one major illness like cancer.

And our litigous society makes healthcare expensive also - doctors order totally inappropriate tests just because they are afraid of being sued.

While we have "good" knowledge and techniques and standards in healthcare, it is just too expensive for the masses. The "implementation" of our healthcare is in the toilet.

So, do I think we need healthcare reform? You bet!!

[Bevdeforges]

I asked the question because I see lots of things here in the French health care system that seem applicable to the US situation. We've got a two-tier system - most people have both the national (public) coverage and a private insurance to pay that part that the national coverage doesn't. It ain't perfect, but it's not bad at all.

But I wonder if perhaps there are just too many hopelessly vested interests in the US health care industry. There are the obvious ones, like the pharma companies, the insurance companies and the private hospital corporations. But also there is lots of cost bound up in the intricacies of the current system: the need for armies of staff in each doctor's office to code up insurance forms, the need for clerical staff at the insurers to root through claims, looking for a reason to reject, and of course the whole "get rich quick" mentality that drives the tort system: if you don't get the outcome you wanted, you can always sue and at least make a fortune, even if someone dies.
Cheers,
Bev

[Coton90]

There are 47 million people in the US without health care insurance and the price of healthcare is spiraling out of control. Sometimes those that want health insurance are denied coverage or are forced to pay exorbitant rates for "pre-existing conditions". Some health insurance companies no longer provide benefits when "lifetime limits are reached. Some families in the US are being driven into poverty as the result of providing out of pocket medical care. These are the basic problems being addressed by the proposed legislation.

The estimate for providing universal health care is 1 trillion dollars over 10 years. Obama proposes funding it by reducing costs to Medicare and Medicaid funds. The rationale is most of the funding for the proposed plan would come from reducing waste in the current system. Other proposals include reducing tax exemptions for the very wealthy and higher taxes on millionaires. There are currently several bills being proposed in the House and Senate. All bills call for mandatory participation or risk paying a fine. The thinking is the younger and healthier would provide funds to the system.

Critics are skeptical that the funding scheme will not work. Medicare/Medicaid recipients are concerned their benefits will be reduced. Others are concerned the Government doesn't know how to run a healthcare system and will end up creating a disaster such as the response to Hurricane Katrina or the War in Iraq. Actually the government already runs a healthcare system for the military. Its called Tri-Care and by all accounts, it is very successful.

The latest flack concerns a provision for non-mandatory end of life counseling. Some have erroneously interpreted this to mean the Government will set up Death Panels who will recommend euthanasia for Grandmas. This is far from what the provision provides for; in fact the Republicans originated this proposal earlier.

Many in the US, myself included, feel that the status quo can not continue and something must be done. Its a disgrace that the richest country in the world is unable to provide universal health care for its citizens and that families have to make choices between purchasing food or purchasing medication.

In addition to Canada, Holland has also come up in discussions as a model for an efficient health care system. Are the Dutch smarter than us in figuring out how to implement universal heathcare? The concept of social responsibility is non-existent for many people in the States. There's this feeling that "I got my piece of the pie and tough luck if you didn't get yours". Until we overcome this attitude health care reform will be an uphill battle.

[Bevdeforges]

I keep thinking that a big part of the problem in the US is the big money to be made by the various vested interests. Doctors in the US make 4 times the median salary vs. 2 times in most European countries. Insurance is a profit-making enterprise, whereas elsewhere it is pretty strictly regulated and either not-for-profit or government run. The pharmaceutical companies are raking it in and charging whatever the market will bear for medications that are variations on a theme for illnesses that already have multiple treatments, whereas here in Europe we have government caps on drug prices (basically, whatever the national system will pay for a drug). And meanwhile the lawyers are into the action, suing for "pain and suffering" when a treatment goes wrong, and thus inspiring duplicative and unnecessary tests and procedures in order to CYA.

Oddly enough, today I was discussing this with a French acquaintance who was moaning that the French health care system is going down hill. The evidence he cited for this opinion included most of the points where the French system is becoming more and more like the American system.
Cheers,
Bev

[Coton90]

I agree that there are institutions that have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. The practices you spoke of are some of the wasteful ones whose reduction will, in part, help pay for the system. In the meantime, the right is whipping up the masses to a frenzy with misinformation. There are those at these town hall meetings who have legitimate questions and concerns. Unfortunately, they are getting drowned out by the loonies that are not interested in having a meaningful dialogue.

[DesertStranded]

Since I will be moving back to the states in a year or so I hope they do implement a national health care scheme. I don't see why we can't have both a public and a private health care scheme.

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by DesertStranded

Since I will be moving back to the states in a year or so I hope they do implement a national health care scheme. I don't see why we can't have both a public and a private health care scheme.

In France we have a combined public-private system, which works reasonably well.

What really fries me about the US debate at the moment are the outrageous lies the opposition is spreading about "foreign" health care systems. Most Canadians I know are generally happy with their "socialized" system - though like all nationalities they gripe about what they don't like about it. The British system, too, has its faults, but most Brits would rather deal with the NHS than with the mess in the US.

But unfortunately, to implement a sustainable system may mean that some of the "stakeholders" in the present system will have to live on somewhat less income than what they've become accustomed to.
Cheers,
Bev

[rotarise]

Originally Posted by DesertStranded

Since I will be moving back to the states in a year or so I hope they do implement a national health care scheme. I don't see why we can't have both a public and a private health care scheme.

BIG mistake! i would not move back to America if i were you. It´s basically the first country that the international bankers took over and will implement the new world order -ONE WORLD GOVERMENT!
i say no more just take a couple minutes of your time and watch this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd9NX8dPE1I