"Socialized medicine" - threat or menace?

[Bevdeforges]

It's the lobbyists and special interest groups that have the most to lose under any serious reform of the American health care system. The insurance industry is lusting after any plan that would mandate everyone having to buy health insurance - but they absolutely don't want to be mandated themselves to have to pay all claims, nor to have to insure any but the healthiest individuals.

Probably the biggest genuine threat to health care reform in the US is the loss of jobs that would be caused by the simplification of the claim process. Yet that's precisely what is needed in order to cut the cost of the system down to reasonable levels.
Cheers,
Bev

[Coton90]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

It's the lobbyists and special interest groups that have the most to lose under any serious reform of the American health care system. The insurance industry is lusting after any plan that would mandate everyone having to buy health insurance - but they absolutely don't want to be mandated themselves to have to pay all claims, nor to have to insure any but the healthiest individuals.

Cheers,
Bev

As a means of helping to fund universal health care, all the proposals under consideration include mandatory participation with penalties for non-compliance. Exceptions are provided for hardship cases. A good number of healthy young people are uninsured as many don't see the need for it this point in their lives. This is a means of getting them to participate and generating revenue for the plan.

There is now a Democrat proposal for universal health care to include illegal aliens (Remember Joe Wilson's "You Lie" Outburst During Obama's speech? This is what the so called lie was referring to.) . The argument is; we're already providing care to them. When an illegal alien goes to an emergency room, he's receives treatment and isn't turned away. It costs more to treat patients this way as compared to treatment under a plan and we'll save money in the long run by including them. Makes sense to me but this is bound to create a firestorm of debate. En Gard!

[dgjamison]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

As many of you may already know, there is a huge debate (politest term I can think of) in progress in the US over proposed changes to the health care system there. The air is thick with all sorts of misinformation about various "foreign" health care systems and their alleged failures - mostly involving the Canadian and UK systems (largely because all the information is available in English, I guess).

Over in the Canadian section, someone from the States has asked the question, "Gee is the Canadian system as bad as what we're hearing?" and I thought it might be interesting to throw the question out to the wider pool of expats here - especially those of you who know the American health care system and can make some useful comparisons - either to your system back home or to other systems you've lived under.

Is socialized medicine as bad as it is being portrayed in the US? (What the heck IS "socialized medicine" anyhow?) Do US expats yearn for their "free market" system back home, or do you wonder (as I do) if and how the folks back home lost their collective minds with all the idiotic objections they are raising to the prospect of a universal health care system?

For the expats in the US, would you like to see a national health care system implemented? What features from your home system would you like to see (or not) in the US plan?
Cheers,
Bev

Hi I am a baby boomer from britain born into the nhs, which was the greatest health care system in the world, until immigration exploited and destroyed it. I feel the system started to fail when other countries got to know they could come to britain, get benefits right away and free medical care. I am all for helping any third world country but feel charity begins at home and when our own nationals cannot get help because the system is overstretched, then I think something has gone wrong. I am now living in Canada, and have just found out my husbands medication is going to cost us nearly $300 per month???? It was free in britain. I would love to see a kind of national health service here and in the usa, but it must be done properly, and anyone coming into the country should have to work and pay into the system before being intitled to free health care, and certainly not be entitled to housing or benifits at the cost to local people. I also beleive this starts to cause resentment to the immigrant and the situation can blow up, I have seen it happen in Britain, in short your own people must be taken care of first and foremost everyone else later, then and only then will it work and not be exploited. hope I havent been too long winded

[dgjamison]

Originally Posted by Nickel

It is interesting you ask this as I have been following the "debate" with great interest!!

As a healthcare professional, IMHO the US healthcare system is horrible!! It really is the worst for the lower middle class - those with jobs but make too much money to get Medicaid and not enough to pay the exhorbant health insurance prices!!

And then when people can't afford health insurance - where do they go? The ER - for constipation, because they broke a tooth....... well, you get it. This overburdens a system that is already at a breaking point. And even if you have insurance, heck you could go bankrupt with just one major illness like cancer.

And our litigous society makes healthcare expensive also - doctors order totally inappropriate tests just because they are afraid of being sued.

While we have "good" knowledge and techniques and standards in healthcare, it is just too expensive for the masses. The "implementation" of our healthcare is in the toilet.

So, do I think we need healthcare reform? You bet!!

I have to agree with you, the " ambulance chasers" have ruined the usa and has now spread to the united kingdom, I already see a difference in the culture I grew up in simple thing like playing rope in school now its not allowed in case a child falls and their families sue the school. CRAZY this never happened in the 60's 70's but started creeping in in the 80's It is going to bankrupt the system in Britain just like the usa, the claim culture needs to be adressed and the payouts reduced the millions being payed out is over the top:, you certainly would not get it in spain or any other country that I know of

[Bevdeforges]

In the US and UK, everyone seems to want to blame the "immigrants" for the problems with the healthcare system. Just remember that this forum is made up of immigrants, many of whom are responsible and contributing members of the societies we have immigrated to.

In the US, at least, it's not just the immigrants, but also the young healthy people who are allowed to skimp on health insurance who overload the system when they do get sick or have accidents and wind up using the emergency rooms when they should have had access to a regular doctor all along. (It speaks also to the whole issue of the cost of medical care in the US - why a simple doctor visit costs, what, $80 - $120, while in France it's 22€.)

I do wonder at the systems that cover everyone within their borders - the UK, and apparently Italy. Most systems (even the "socialized" ones) require some level of contribution - through work or whatever benefits system one is on. Of course there is provision for people who aren't covered for any reason, but in an organized manner than can be somewhat controlled. When I was receiving unemployment in Germany, there was a small deduction from my payment for health care and other social insurances, so that my coverage was maintained while I looked for work. It seemed an excellent idea back then, and still does.
Cheers,
Bev

[jojo]

I've not been following this thread, nor have I read every post, so forgive me if I'm going off at a tangent. I just want to say that the NHS in the UK is totally in the pockets of the major pharmaceutical industries. IMO, there are simply squillions of pounds in pointless medications being doled out that quite frankly do nothing for anyone apart from the big businesses. They simply makes huge profits and costs the tax payers and their health.

I suspect thats the plan in the US - and the rest of the world eventually!

If you look at it, an example is the obesity epidemic. Rather than stop the problem at source and make the food manufacturers (who are making millions) use less sugar, chemicals, artificial products which are known to cause detrimental health issues, such as obesity, heart disease, diabetes and many more illnesses, they allow them to continue to pump nations full of their junk and then the pharma industries comes along with medication to try to rectify the problems they are causing - what a great money spinnner for everyone! The pharma industry is doing this with almost every aspect of human health with their vaccines, health scare solutions, treatments for ...... well whatever you can think of!

I hope I'm not straying too much off topic, but this is actually something I feel so strongly about!!!

I'll shut up and go away now!!! LOL

Jo xxx

[Bevdeforges]

Not at all, Jo, you're actually very much on topic.

One of the big "concerns" in the US is that of putting any sort of restrictions on the big pharma companies. Too many people think that, without huge profits, all further "research" will come to an immediate halt. Unfortunately, most of the research seems to be directed at variations of existing medications that will simply allow the pharma companies to hold onto their monopoly (i.e. patent) for another several years.

There is a big issue of "orphan diseases" in the US - those diseases that are rare enough that even were they to find a treatment or cure, there isn't enough profit in selling it to the few people who would benefit. Yet, as you say, the drug companies go on, looking to find a pill that will cure obesity or get rid of wrinkles, or keep blood pressure down, no matter what sort of junk food you ingest or how little you get up and simply move around.
Cheers,
Bev

[dgjamison]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

In the US and UK, everyone seems to want to blame the "immigrants" for the problems with the healthcare system. Just remember that this forum is made up of immigrants, many of whom are responsible and contributing members of the societies we have immigrated to.

In the US, at least, it's not just the immigrants, but also the young healthy people who are allowed to skimp on health insurance who overload the system when they do get sick or have accidents and wind up using the emergency rooms when they should have had access to a regular doctor all along. (It speaks also to the whole issue of the cost of medical care in the US - why a simple doctor visit costs, what, $80 - $120, while in France it's 22€.)

I do wonder at the systems that cover everyone within their borders - the UK, and apparently Italy. Most systems (even the "socialized" ones) require some level of contribution - through work or whatever benefits system one is on. Of course there is provision for people who aren't covered for any reason, but in an organized manner than can be somewhat controlled. When I was receiving unemployment in Germany, there was a small deduction from my payment for health care and other social insurances, so that my coverage was maintained while I looked for work. It seemed an excellent idea back then, and still does.
Cheers,
Bev

Can I just say I am not a racist person and agree we are all immigrants, however, I am now a Canadian Citizen and have just returned after 26 years, so I have to wait the 3 months before I can get OHIP again, I accept that, also I have no chance of getting any benifits as I have not paid into the system for so long, nor do I feel I deserve any, and that is my point, If immigrants come to Britain, they firstly should have a job to come to as we had to have to originally get into canada, there should be no handouts until they have paid into the sytem for some time, and certainly no housing, they should have enough money to cover their stay until they are self sufficant, like my husband and I had to do, that is not discrimination, just justice, also when my husband came on his own to get a job to get into Canada, I had to stay at home to have my baby as we would not have been covered in Canada, we were prepared to do that to achieve our goal. I just feel Britain has become a soft touch with the nhs ect and it is taken advantage of