"Socialized medicine" - threat or menace?

[frogblogger]

Excellent

Is it based on a recent WHO listing? I thought that I recalled France having dropped down a few places a year or two back?

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by frogblogger

Excellent

Is it based on a recent WHO listing? I thought that I recalled France having dropped down a few places a year or two back?

I thought I had heard that, too. Maybe it's based on an earlier survey. It does seem a pretty polished video and I think that recent WHO listing has only been out for a week or two.
Cheers,
Bev

[greensheen22]

Short term, its going to be great. Long Term its going to cost us all an arm and a leg.

[Fatbrit]

Originally Posted by greensheen22

Short term, its going to be great. Long Term its going to cost us all an arm and a leg.

It already costs us an arm and a leg -- at least 2x the nearest comparable. The idea is to stop it costing us more than a single arm.

[kirikara]

I have to say as a french expat in the US, I have encountered quite a bit of ignorance and disbelief of the so called socialized system.
The main profound difference of all I think is the fact that it is now widely accepted that health care is not a right it is a "benefit"...
I think in the whole capitalist, pick up yourself and work hard society, there is been a loss of clear vision of the current realities and what are priorities for one if not the most powerful nation in the world
it also kills me to think the debate is poisonned by the whole abortion issue (my tax $ will pay to kill a life!) but they have no issue with their neighbor not being able to get cancer treatment cause it is "not covered"...and leaving a family behind. There is such a big difference of scale!


Overall, I think people are under-informed or misinformed. They do not undertsand the concept of yes it will be expensive but it already is CRAZY expensive...I would be more than happy to pay more taxes if I dont have to worry about caughing up 10K for a child birth or have to worry about loosing my house while having cancer...Let's not even go the route of pre-existing conditions (I have some)

I am not a big fan of Michael Moore because of its style, but I have to say the first time I saw SICKO, I was just in tears and pieces at the movie theater.
not because the movie was so emotional (his arguments are not always that great and very often too bias to make a true point) but because I feel so bad for the people of America...I, as a french citizen, felt like I could always protect my family and if something was to happen I could figure something out, take a plane, and come back home and get treatment.
But I felt absolutely devastated for people that dont have that chance and see their family suffer in front of them without being able to do much.

[frogblogger]

kirikara - thanks for the perspective from the pov of view of a French person living in the US. Health care as a "benefit" of being financially secure? There's something rather chilling about that perception - a society with (at least) two classes of citizen, in fact.

[kirikara]

Originally Posted by frogblogger

kirikara - thanks for the perspective from the pov of view of a French person living in the US. Health care as a "benefit" of being financially secure? There's something rather chilling about that perception - a society with (at least) two classes of citizen, in fact.

Oh yes definitely... I have had conversations during the elections with people that just told me point blank "i don't want to pay for someone's else healthcare"
And then when I told them but healthcare is not something you can't save for like retirement, it is just too expensive and can happen anytime.. still nothing..

and then I tell them, but what about people that do work hard, do have insurance and still loose their home? One told me "oh yes that is bad. it happened to my aunt !.. but it was totally her fault she did not fill paperwork on time...."

I was speechless, and believe me that does not happen often!

To me it is such an anti-christian concept to refuse healthcare for all, I wonder how such a religious country can think it is ok.
I don't know how they succeed to twist issues in such weird way that it makes sense even though it does not?

Mostly I feel people are scared of what they don't know and are not bad people at all. they have good intents, they just don't have the understanding of the situation and politicians tend to exploit that.

[Bevdeforges]

I'm in the US right now, and I have to admit the attitudes here always surprise/shock me on arrival. After almost 20 years of living in Europe, I tend to forget how much faith the Americans place in "the free markets" and "free enterprise" and how fearful they are of "big government."

The problem is that, from what I can tell of the current proposals on the table, they're really only talking about some minor regulation of the health insurance industry - and at that, new rules that would only benefit the insurance companies (i.e. that everyone would have to have insurance).

A huge part of the problem over here is that big companies (insurance, health care providers, etc.) have been left to charge whatever the market will bear - for drugs, for insurance, for treatment, etc. - in the all-American desire to get rich quick. Even with price caps on drugs in most other countries, I see very few pharmaceutical companies in any danger of not making huge profits - and drug prices could come way down in the US if they'd just stop taking out all those expensive TV ads to promote their latest variation of "popular" drugs. If insurers would simplify the claim process they could eliminate all the layers of claims processors and claims checkers, and thus lots of cost. The list goes on, but it means fewer jobs and big shot doctors and executives having to "make do" on somewhat lower salaries.
Cheers,
Bev

[Coton90]

Originally Posted by kirikara

Oh yes definitely... I have had conversations during the elections with people that just told me point blank "i don't want to pay for someone's else healthcare"
And then when I told them but healthcare is not something you can't save for like retirement, it is just too expensive and can happen anytime.. still nothing..

and then I tell them, but what about people that do work hard, do have insurance and still loose their home? One told me "oh yes that is bad. it happened to my aunt !.. but it was totally her fault she did not fill paperwork on time...."

I was speechless, and believe me that does not happen often!

To me it is such an anti-christian concept to refuse healthcare for all, I wonder how such a religious country can think it is ok.
I don't know how they succeed to twist issues in such weird way that it makes sense even though it does not?

Mostly I feel people are scared of what they don't know and are not bad people at all. they have good intents, they just don't have the understanding of the situation and politicians tend to exploit that.

These people will be the first ones demanding universal health care coverage as soon as their health care provider denies their medical claim based on "pre-existing conditions" or treatment that is recommended by their doctor but deemed non-essential and they have to pay out of pocket and go into debt.

My sense is the majority of Americans recognize the status quo is intolerable and something needs to be done, even among the Republicans. I see a lot of criticism from the opposition but little in the way of solutions.

[frogblogger]

Interesting article in today's Guardian. It begins...

America's healthcare industry has spent hundreds of millions of dollars to block the introduction of public medical insurance and stall other reforms promised by Barack Obama. The campaign against the president has been waged in part through substantial donations to key politicians.

Supporters of radical reform of healthcare say legislation emerging from the US Senate reflects the financial power of vested interests ‑ principally insurance companies, pharmaceutical firms and hospitals ‑ that have worked to stop far-reaching changes threatening their profits.

The industry and interest groups have spent $380m (£238m) in recent months influencing healthcare legislation through lobbying, advertising and in direct political contributions to members of Congress. The largest contribution, totalling close to $1.5m, has gone to the chairman of the senate committee drafting the new law.