Warning: Zafarana Beach Resort

[Eco-Mariner]

Hi Sam.
How are you?

I was reading your comment "IPI signed as themselves and not in any capacity on behalf of any owner, and that in Egyptian law, my friend, is illegal.".

So have you seen or read the original partnership contract between IPI and EMR when they created their relationship?

If an Article of Agreement actually states in their contracts of Association (and each party signs) that a poa is given to its partner (and an overseas partner in this case,) do you mean to say it is actually illegal in Egypt?

Alan.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Eco-Mariner

Hi Sam.
How are you?

I was reading your comment "IPI signed as themselves and not in any capacity on behalf of any owner, and that in Egyptian law, my friend, is illegal.".

So have you seen or read the original partnership contract between IPI and EMR when they created their relationship?

If an Article of Agreement actually states in their contracts of Association (and each party signs) that a poa is given to its partner (and an overseas partner in this case,) do you mean to say it is actually illegal in Egypt?

Alan.

Hi Alan,

I'm doing fine thanks Hope all is well with you.

Let me give you an example of what I'm trying to say.

Mr. A owns a plot of land. As the owner Mr. A is entitled to sell said land or any building on it.

Mr. A grants to Mr. B a Power of Attorney allowing Mr. B to sign sales contracts on Mr. A's behalf.

Mr. B is now legally allowed to sign sales contracts as the legal representative of Mr. A. If Mr. B signs a contract as himself and not in his capacity as a legal representative, then Mr. B does not have the legal right to do so, as Mr. B is not the owner, but a representative of the owner.

I hope that makes sense.

In answer to your question, I have not seen the original contract between EMR and IPI, but it does not affect the legal status of the contracts IPI signed, because IPI signed as themselves as though they were the owners not as representatives of the owners.

I hope that has clarified my point.

Sam

[Eco-Mariner]

It partly does Sam.
However, without reading the exact words "as legal representative" or "as the company partner" as we become accustomed to in normal business, therefore we should not presume there was no such agreement.

I'm sure the lawyers of these large companies would have made sure this was the case prior to them commencing business. Written in both languages. Or do you think this was not correctly translated and conflict ensued?

Regards.

Alan.

[leeroberts]

I think I may owe Sam an apology.... from what i have learned in the last couple of days - it looks like IPI may not have been very truthful at all with the investors - in that they were going to make money resort built or not...
EMR bought the land and sold the apartments to IPI - who in turn sold the apartments to us the investors...for a huge profit. They have fallen out and EMR fancies it's chances in court over the translation of the contracts.......June will not be the end of it - this will go on for many months after June!!!

[Sam]

Originally Posted by leeroberts

I think I may owe Sam an apology.... from what i have learned in the last couple of days - it looks like IPI may not have been very truthful at all with the investors - in that they were going to make money resort built or not...
EMR bought the land and sold the apartments to IPI - who in turn sold the apartments to us the investors...for a huge profit. They have fallen out and EMR fancies it's chances in court over the translation of the contracts.......June will not be the end of it - this will go on for many months after June!!!

I was not aware of any formal sale between IPI and EMR, but can ask about that.

By any means, I can quite agree with you, I also do not expect for this saga to be over in June, or even this year. BUT the investors of Zafaraana are lucky in that their resort is almost completed and I do believe it will be completed. And EMR appear ready to rectify contracts and complete handovers. And thus I am encouraging owners to contact EMR to sort out their situation and claim their rights to their property. A case between EMR and IPI could go on years even, but if an investor can get themselves a legitimate contract and take handover then they can go on and enjoy their property without worrying about what's going on between the two companies.

[leeroberts]

Hi Sam
I hear what you are saying - but just getting the deeds to an apartment in a non-functioning resort is as worthless as getting no deeds at all - who could you sell to, how would you enjoy the resort with just security gaurds in the complex!

Even if (and thats a big IF) EMR did play fair with investors and only ask them for 5% of the apartment fees to finish their apartment - you have to rely on them to get an operator to manage the resort and be at EMR's mercy come resort fees etc.

Lee

[angelra]

I have just...today...paid my £100 to the steering committee who are getting legal advice for us...the investors. I don't like paying any more money,but having read the previous forum,I am even more depressed, and feel we all have to join up and fight for our rights.
I suggest any investor reading this joins up and contacts Poli Avramidis and contributes to the fund. It can only help.....

[angelra]

Originally Posted by Sam

I was not aware of any formal sale between IPI and EMR, but can ask about that.

By any means, I can quite agree with you, I also do not expect for this saga to be over in June, or even this year. BUT the investors of Zafaraana are lucky in that their resort is almost completed and I do believe it will be completed. And EMR appear ready to rectify contracts and complete handovers. And thus I am encouraging owners to contact EMR to sort out their situation and claim their rights to their property. A case between EMR and IPI could go on years even, but if an investor can get themselves a legitimate contract and take handover then they can go on and enjoy their property without worrying about what's going on between the two companies.

Hi Sam
You seem to talk sense. I am an hotel owner,and have been told that as a result I am in a different context from the rest. Apparently EMR cannot sell the apartments belonging to hotel owners. The others have been offered deals with EMR but nothing for us. What do you recommend? Is there any hope for us or do we just lose our money?

[leeroberts]

From what I see in the forumns and the documents sent out.

EMR have asked everybody (no mater what type of apartment you bought) for an extra 21k euro to finish your apartment......if you have a penthouse you come out best with this deal.....

But, I urge you to be VERY careful when dealing with EMR - as the questions posed by the Dutch steering group are very particular to us.....if you agree to give 21k and let EMR finish your apt. - you must ask yourself these questions:

1) In what timeline - 5 years to get here (knowing what they were going to do all along until the monies dried up in the escow accounts - or access restricted)

2) Who will manage the resort - EMR and another operator?

3) What fees will you be annually charged

4) What use of the apt will you be given?

5) No restaurant or well center to be finished for at least two years - not an attractive reason to visit the resort if you are a tourist

6) You have to pay for the furniture package (again - 6k euro) on top of 21k

I ask you can you trust EMR, after what they have done to IPI\investors. people need to be very weary when thinking about taking this option as it will create two contracts - which is illegal in itself.
As has been mentioned the IPI contract has been accepted as evidence by the Egyptian court and nothing EMR can do about that - So IPI had a legal stance to sell the apt's to us (given to them by EMR)....

People should wait until the court case has been digested to see what is the best way forward!

[GMB1980]

Originally Posted by Sam

For anybody who has either bought in this project or thinking to buy in this project, please be aware that a Dutch company known as IPI has been ILLEGALLY selling this project. The legitimate Egyptian developers have already established a court case against them.

For anybody who may be affected by this you may contact me for further information.

For anybody buying any property in Egypt please be aware of non-Egyptian representatives, especially agents marketing the project, signing the contract. They almost never have the authority to do so and a lot of people have lost money this way.

Hi Sam,

It was interesting to read your posts on this site.

I purchased a 2 bed apt at Zafarana in 2007 paying the full fee upfront. As you know, things have gone from bad to worse, with the now impending court case.

You mention contacting EMR to have the contract switched, in order that I have legal ownership. EMR will not approve this.

It seems that IPI have made a huge error of judgement from the outset and all investors that assumed due diligence had been done and that the bank guarantee was worth something are now in a very difficult situation.

IPI got into this mess and the real issue is that all the investors are now out of pocket with it looking like they will never receive an apt they believed they had paid for.

In your opinion, can you see any positive news in the future for the investors or do you believe that this battle has already been lost? Do Egyptian court cases relating to real estate and he Zafarana situation typically go on for years?

I've accepted that the funds I paid will never come back...and I'll learn from this, but do you foresee any positive news for the investors?

Many thanks,

John