Mixed Relationships

[Sam]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
How did I miss all these posts - JoJo & Sunflower you really had me laughing!!!!
The problem, unfortunately, is not only the Egyptian men. Yes they are low and dirty and creepy and and and... BUT I see every day these sort of people hand in hand with their foreign "love". If these idiotic women actually believe these men love them then these men are going to continue to prey on foreign women in any way they can, they keep getting what they want. I see it especially in real estate - many Egyptian "boys" have passed through our doors with their considerably older foreign "wife" looking for places to buy, and the Egyptians in some cases even have the audacity to say in Arabic in front of them that they will be looking for commission from the sale!!! Now that makes me sick.
Which leads to another topic, if you marry a foreigner (any nationality) should you not try to learn their language? Even if you never become fluent, a basic knowledge is surely essential, especially if you will be living in their country, meeting their family etc.


At the suggestion of MS after sticky becoming a little off topic - I am starting a new topic

Helen - I am in 100% agreement with you. Not just if you are in a mixed relationship should you try to learn their language, but if you are living in a foreign country you should try to learn the local language. Perhaps you do not need to be fluent if you are not in a relationship with an Egyptian and only living here, not necessarily integrating with the locals. Especially if you are here on a temporary basis. BUT basics are essential, in many situations (especially in Cairo) the taxi driver, shop assistant etc will not understand English. And in Sharm a little Arabic will get you "local prices" not "foreigner prices", which hugely differ in value!

But, if the topic is specifically about marriage to an Egyptian and learning Arabic there are many other factors to take into consideration. Communicating with his family - yes this is a part of it, especially if they are from a poorly educated background with little or no English. There is also politeness - a whole group of people shouldn't all have to use a foreign language just because one person can't speak their home language. There is the case of having children, and being able to communicate with and understand your child in all scenarios (from personal experience I can say my daughter is more comfortable speaking in Arabic than English). Finally there is the worst case - that your husband is a fraud and you need to understand him when he is openly trying to cheat you.


My suggestion. Perhaps those of us who have experience of Egyptian-Foreigner relationships should give advice to any women on this forum who currently have an Egyptian boyfriend (or Orphi married husband) and are thinking of taking the next step - legalising the marriage, moving here, moving him there or otherwise. Whilst there are a few relationships that do have a happy ending, most do not work out. This is not necessarily because the guy is a fraud and trying to take a visa or money, all relationships will have problems regardless of nationality, race, culture etc, but as I have witnessed & experienced, mixed culture relationships can be particularly problematic. The women involved are usually too in love to see the truth and often don't want to, and their friends are usually more than encouraging. I am not posting this because I believe I am a relationship expert, I am posting this because I wish someone had knocked some sense into me three and a half years ago (even if I hadn't of listened ). I also know of multiple cases of heart broken women who have lost more than just a husband who wish someone had knocked sense into them. This is a very sensitive topic and I hope I have not offended anyone, I just wanted to offer experience and insight for anyone who wants it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here who can

[starchief]

The problem, unfortunately, is not only the Egyptian men. Yes they are low and dirty and creepy and and and

I hope I have not offended anyone

I would suspect you have! None of my brothers-in-law (I married an Egyptian girl) are like that. The people I've worked with aren't either. I'm not for one moment saying there aren't bad eggs. Not for one moment. But would you be happy if someone posted a statement saying: "black men are low and dirty and creepy and and and...", even if they'd had a bad experience? Generalising like that is very racist and that's what gives foreigners a bad name.

these idiotic women actually believe these men love them then these men are going to continue to prey on foreign women

Hell of a cynical attitude too. Just because one of them is a foreigner, doesn't mean a couple isn't in love or the marriage is destined to break up. Look at the divorce rate between married couples from the same country. Not much better.

Egyptians in some cases even have the audacity to say in Arabic in front of them that they will be looking for commission from the sale!!! Now that makes me sick.

Why? They're trying to save money. What's wrong with that? Never negotiated anything? Especially when later on we have:

a little Arabic will get you "local prices" not "foreigner prices"

Doesn't it make you sick that a foreigner is trying to get local prices?

With that sort of better-than-thou attitude, what the hell you doing living in a foreign land?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by starchief

I would suspect you have! None of my brothers-in-law (I married an Egyptian girl) are like that. The people I've worked with aren't either. I'm not for one moment saying there aren't bad eggs. Not for one moment. But would you be happy if someone posted a statement saying: "black men are low and dirty and creepy and and and...", even if they'd had a bad experience? Generalising like that is very racist and that's what gives foreigners a bad name.


Hell of a cynical attitude too. Just because one of them is a foreigner, doesn't mean a couple isn't in love or the marriage is destined to break up. Look at the divorce rate between married couples from the same country. Not much better.


Why? They're trying to save money. What's wrong with that? Never negotiated anything? Especially when later on we have:

Doesn't it make you sick that a foreigner is trying to get local prices?

With that sort of better-than-thou attitude, what the hell you doing living in a foreign land?

Wow, thanks for taking everything out of context!!!
Perhaps you should read the original thread in which this came from before shooting me down.

The topic being previously discussed was specifically the fraudulent Egyptian men who led women to believe they loved them and then married them for the sole purpose of their own benefit (money, visa etc). It was not about Egyptian men as a whole. I was commenting simply that the victims in this case should also be held somewhat liable for allowing themselves to be conned.

Originally Posted by starchief

"Hell of a cynical attitude too. Just because one of them is a foreigner, doesn't mean a couple isn't in love or the marriage is destined to break up. Look at the divorce rate between married couples from the same country. Not much better."

If you read my post again you will find that I have mentioned that all relationships have problems, just simply that mixed culture relationships can be more problematic and challenging. I have not said that they are all destined to fail, I have just said that from my experiences and what I have seen around me, most do.

Originally Posted by starchief

"Why? They're trying to save money. What's wrong with that? Never negotiated anything? Especially when later on we have:

Doesn't it make you sick that a foreigner is trying to get local prices?"

This couple I am speaking about were not trying to save money. I have a good experience about the classes of Egypt, who are decent and who are not. This "boy" was at least 30 years younger, from a very rural village, his English was extremely poor and he actually openly said much more than he wanted commission. He openly said he did not love her, was only with her for money and he wanted our help in getting it. I don't think anybody was misunderstood (and in case anyone is wondering we did not continue to deal with these clients, this behaviour is not something we encourage). And about a foreigner trying to get local prices, I do not see anything wrong with this when the foreigner is being paid a local salary.

What am I doing living in a foreign land?? Living my life, enjoying my life, doing what I enjoy in a place I enjoy being.


I am not discouraging people getting involved with Egyptian men. They can do what they want to do, it's not my business to interfere and their outcome will not affect me in the slightest. I was offering insight on foreign women-Egyptian men relationships (or even muslim/non-muslim relationships) in a vain attempt to help them to know what they could expect. This thread can be used for people to just chat about the problems they are having to draw on others experiences of what they did to solve it - or even the successes they are having in their relationship to share with others in the hope we can all have long happy successful relationships.

[sungirl]

Starchief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh my goodness, did you not read Sam's message properly????? Apologies but your message shows a certain amount of ignorance.

Of course men should not be asking (behind their wife's back, or in front of it as the case may be) for commission!!!!!!! This is appalling and Sam is quite right to find it offensive.

Also, foreigners working in Egypt, on local salaries, cannot surely afford to pay the over inflated prices that guest foreigners pay... live local, pay local.

As for the other stuff, I cannot even be bothered!

[DeadGuy]

"(or Orphi married husband)" Please tell me that you do NOT mean the kinda secret marriage that Egyptian Muslim teens go for just to make having a sexual relationship becomes "Halal" or whatever??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for Mr. starchief ???? I assume you're a guy since you said you married an Egyptian lady cause lesbians' marriages aren't allowed in here????? Mr!!! your case is totally different!!!! apparently you ended up with a lady coming from a well educated family, cause unless they're educated or at least open minded family??? they wouldn't let their daughter marry a foreigner!! trust me!!! But the case that Sam is talking about in here??? is a LOW LIFE Egyptian guy that just wanna rob a non Egyptian lady!!! and dude!!! trust me, it happens, a lot!!!!! You can go Sharm or Hurgada and you'll see some of those "guys" who moved to those cities from all over Egypt, not to work in a company or a hotel, but they have a full time job as male prostitutes!!! it is their full time job to fool non Egyptian ladies going there just for a holiday!!! and if one of them thought he can fool her for more than one night?? trust me, he won't hesitate!!!

And Mr. starchief ????? Please! notice that not because expats chose to live in here means they have to pay extra money for whatever they're gonna buy just cause they're not bloody locals!!! You're from Scotland I can see, is it how it's going with non Scotch living in there???? Don't forget that those "expats" are LIVING IN HERE FULL TIME! not just here for a holiday!!!!

As for the suggestion for learning the native language ?? I personally agree that it would be helpful to learn Arabic or whatever native language for living purpose or marriage (though I personally believe that Arabic is 90% swears and none sense and 10% crap, specially the Egyptian slang!!!) BUT, still, don't think this is the only thing that would make anyone safe from "people" like those low lives!!! You guys need to have the minimum human doubt!!! simply cause when it comes to "love"??? it's always obvious if someone's really in love or just making it up!!!!!

Hope none of you think I'm being rude or intruding on your stuff, but it's really annoying me how some people think they can fool others just like that!

Good luck to everyone living in here.

[MaidenScotland]

Sam
I think your reply said it all.

Maiden x

p.s Starchief.... no one knows exactly what their brother in law/child/ husband/wife is doing when they are not with them,

[Sam]

Hi,

Thank you everybody for comments.


Without wanting to dwell too much on the negatives, I have now heard the new low. My friend a few days ago found themselves alone on a microbus heading home, the bus driver took advantage of the situation putting his hand on their leg and offering to take them out into the desert for "you know what". After refusal he then demanded 50LE for the short journey, and being rather afraid at this point my friend obliged and left the bus. Okay, terrible situation but not unheard of, so what makes this a new low - my friend is a thirty-something MALE.

ANYWAY.
Given that Islamic law forbids a Muslim women to marry anyone but a Muslim man, I can only assume that starchief is muslim, or his wife is not. In either case he could not have faced what I consider the most difficult challenges people in these mixed relationships face, the religious difference.

This is what I really want people to understand if they do not. For any women or girls about to enter into a new relationship where they are not muslim and their guy is, I want them to understand that even if their guy seems like a liberal Muslim now (not strictly following Islamic rules) if he really believes his religion the fact that his wife is not will one day bother him. And if he really believes and he really doesn't care about his wife's religious views then he probably doesn't love you and is probably planning to leave you for Muslim wife when he gets what he needs (if he doesn't already have one, which I have also seen happen).

Again I am generalising a lot here, and I'm sure there are cases where the relationship did work out, but I have seen the same scenario all too often. Husband tries to change wife, wife doesn't agree, in these cases where the husband actually did love the wife and he does this it can leave both heart broken - this is often and unfortunately most common after they have a child together, as of course the child should be automatically Muslim, but a liberal mother often insists the child be allowed to choose which religion they want to follow, if any, and eventually splits to give the child what they consider the better or more liberal future. In the preferred cases the husband calls the split before the child is conceived in order to protect his unborn child from the potential sins the non-muslim mother will surely encourage. In any case, if it is really love then unless the mother is really acceptant of all her husbands conditions it will normally come to an end, after all there are not many if any Muslim men who will accept their child to be non-Muslim.

If your partner truly believes in his faith, but does not follow it at all, and does not even insist that you try to learn about the religion and attempt to embrace it, you really need to be questioning his behaviour. If he has no problem in cheating God (which he truly believes he will be heavily punished for) then he would have no problem in cheating you.

Anyway, if I can save just one broken heart or one child from living in a broken family I will be happy.

[starchief]

Originally Posted by sungirl

Starchief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enough with the exclamation marks please.

I read this thread. Not a different thread. This thread. It's a new thread. If you start a new thread, then it's good web manners to either post a link to the posts you're talking about, or make a brief summary. Otherwise you're starting a new thread with a completely racist statement, in the hope (that turned out not to be true) that everyone who reads it has followed a different (but unlinked to) conversation on a completely different thread. I, along with others I'm sure, don't read everything posted. The post here says:
"The problem, unfortunately, is not only the Egyptian men. Yes they are low and dirty and creepy and and and"
There's no 'go and read this completely different thread (hyperlink here) where it says that actually that statement isn't what's meant but we're referring to some Egyptian men that we have encountered but we appreciate there's both good and bad'.

Again with DeadGuy saying:

But the case that Sam is talking about in here

What case? The opening statement of this thread doesn't mention anything on this. It depends on someone having followed from an unlinked thread. You're Egyptian, DeadGuy. If I started a thread from new, saying Egyptian men are scum, wouldn't you find this offensive? Not 'some Egyptian men, such as those who try to seduce foreign women for money' but a blanket statement on Egyptian men. That's what's happened here.

In the case of commission, which changes absolutely with:
"He openly said he did not love her, was only with her for money and he wanted our help in getting it."
There is no reference to anything like that in the original post, so why would I assume such a thing.

(behind their wife's back, or in front of it as the case may be)

As far as you know...I quite often play dumb behind my wife's back to get local prices. I often let her deal with business, so as not to get ripped off. And if we were buying a house and knew this was a ruse, I'd let my wife go for it. You can say, in this case you know different, but that's not in the original post or linked to any other post.

p.s Starchief.... no one knows exactly what their brother in law/child/ husband/wife is doing when they are not with them,

You're right. My wife could be an adult video superstar and my mother in a lesbian relationship with my sister but you do get to know people close to you and to make valued judgements. I did know someone that was overtly sexist and cut off contact with them. Because I knew them. And I could make a judgement on their character.

Go back and read the OP as if you had never read the other thread. Don't you find the meaning changes completely?

[starchief]

The topic being previously discussed was specifically the fraudulent Egyptian men who led women to believe they loved them and then married them for the sole purpose of their own benefit (money, visa etc). It was not about Egyptian men as a whole.

Just to add, something like this at the start of the thread, completely changes the meaning and my reply would have been completely different.

[Sam]

At the suggestion of MS after sticky becoming a little off topic - I am starting a new topic

I think this makes it very clear that the old thread was in the sticky, and that it went off topic, and that a new topic was to be started (therefore not needing to summarize old topic which was closed for a reason).